The CPDWL Podcast Project is back!

Our first episode for season 2 features Christine Mackenzie, IFLA President and CPDWL Co-Chair Gill Hallam as host.

Hear the podcast conversation: https://anchor.fm/ifla-cpdwl

Transcript below.

Christine Mackenzie is President of IFLA (International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions). She retired as CEO of Yarra Plenty Regional Library Service, Melbourne, Australia in 2016 after 12 years in that role and following a long career in public libraries. Previously she was Manager of Brisbane City Council Library Service, the largest public library system in Australia. Christine has been very active in IFLA and was President elect 2017 – 19 and Treasurer 2015-17. She was a co-founder of INELI-Oceania, a program funded by the Bill &; Melinda Gates Foundation that provided leadership training for librarians in Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific and which sponsored the formation of the Pacific Libraries Network in 2018. She has been a member of the Australian Government’s Public Lending Rights Committee; the Library Board of Victoria’s Advisory Committee on Public Libraries; the Victorian Government’s Ministerial Advisory Council on Public Libraries; the Executive of the Public Libraries Victoria Network, and a juror for the Intelligent Communities Forum. She has held a number of roles in ALIA including President 2003-04. She was awarded an ALIA fellowship in 2008 and the VALA Robert D Williamson Award in 2012.

Gill Hallam has enjoyed a rich and varied career as an LIS practitioner, educator and researcher. She was an information manager in the Australian business and legal sectors before moving into the academic world, working with Queensland University of Technology, the University of Queensland, the University of Melbourne and Hochschule der Medien in Stuttgart, Germany. Her recognition as Principal Fellow of the Higher Education Academy (UK) reflects the breadth and depth of her achievements. Gill is currently a freelance consultant undertaking applied research projects at the confluence of libraries and learning. Gill has long been involved in the Australian Library and Information Association (ALIA). She served as President in 2005-2006 and for many years she has contributed to the development of ALIA’s education and professional development policies. In 2008 she was made a Fellow of ALIA; in 2011 she was recognised as SLA’s Information Professional of the Year in the Australasian region. Gill is Co-Chair of IFLA’s Section for Continuing Professional Development and Workplace Learning (CPDWL).

Transcript:

Hi, this is Raymond Pun, Welcome to the IFLA CPDWL Podcast Project. In this space, we talk with library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work.. Today’s guests are Christine Mackenzie and Gill Hallam. 

Christine Mackenzie is President of IFLA. She retired as CEO of Yarra Plenty Regional Library Service, Melbourne, Australia in 2016 after 12 years in that role and following a long career in public libraries. Previously she was Manager of Brisbane City Council Library Service, the largest public library system in Australia. Christine has been very active in IFLA and was President elect 2017 – 19 and Treasurer 2015-17. She was a co-founder of the International Network of Library Innovators Oceania, a program funded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation that provided leadership training for librarians in Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific and which sponsored the formation of the Pacific Libraries Network in 2018. She has been a member of the Australian Government’s Public Lending Rights Committee; the Library Board of Victoria’s Advisory Committee on Public Libraries; the Victorian Government’s Ministerial Advisory Council on Public Libraries; the Executive of the Public Libraries Victoria Network, and a juror for the Intelligent Communities Forum. She has held a number of roles in ALIA including President 2003-04. She was awarded an ALIA fellowship in 2008 and the VALA Robert D Williamson Award in 2012.

Gill Hallam has enjoyed a rich and varied career as an LIS practitioner, educator and researcher. She was an information manager in the Australian business and legal sectors before moving into the academic world, working with Queensland University of Technology, the University of Queensland, the University of Melbourne and Hochschule der Medien in Stuttgart, Germany. Her recognition as Principal Fellow of the Higher Education Academy (UK) reflects the breadth and depth of her achievements. Gill is currently a freelance consultant undertaking applied research projects at the confluence of libraries and learning. Gill has long been involved in the Australian Library and Information Association (ALIA). She served as President in 2005-2006 and for many years she has contributed to the development of ALIA’s education and professional development policies. In 2008 she was made a Fellow of ALIA; in 2011 she was recognised as SLA’s Information Professional of the Year in the Australasian region. Gill is Co-Chair of IFLA’s Section for Continuing Professional Development and Workplace Learning (CPDWL).

Gill Hallam is the host for this episode. 

3:10

Gill: Thank you for the introduction Ray – that’s great – and welcome Christine! I’m absolutely delighted to have you with us on the CPDWL Podcast, this morning. So, first of all, if you had to describe yourself using only one word. What word would that be?

3:28

Christine: Wow, that’s a great question to start off with, Gill, and thanks very much for the invitation to be part of this podcast. I’m really delighted to be doing that.

3:39

When I think about that question I think of the word ‘responsible’. And the reason I say that….

3:48

I’m the oldest of eight children and I think when you’re the eldest of eight children, you have to be responsible. You grow up thinking that you need to take care of people. And so I think that’s been something that’s kind of come right through my life. It’s a funny word because it sounds a bit sort of uninteresting; I’d rather be able to say I’m fun or something like that. But I think ‘responsible’ probably the word I’d choose.

4:19

Gill: Well, certainly you’ve had a lot of responsibilities, beyond your family life, to be sure. Certainly within all of the different roles that you’ve played in the library sector and now of course within IFLA. That’s a highly responsible position that you hold! So, yes, let’s go with ‘responsible’.

4:37

But going back in time, what compelled you to become a librarian? So how did you actually get started?

4:44

Christine: Well, I’ve always been really fond of libraries and that started when I was in primary school, because I went to this country school and it was a new kind of model school and so we had a really good library in it – which is pretty amazing back in 1960. And so, they had a lovely teacher-librarian and I just really loved Mrs Stewart. So that gave me a very warm feeling towards libraries right from a very early age, and also my auntie used to take me into the local public library and I loved going in there too, so it’s where I just ended up. Of course, I loved reading. And so I’d always felt very fumbly towards libraries and as I got towards the end of school, you know, and thinking what I could do, well you know, Gill, back in those days the options were fairly limited. And so really for me, there was to be a nurse, a teacher or a librarian and the other two didn’t really appeal at all so I just…  I think fell pretty naturally into librarianship.

5:51

Gill: OK, so you actually moved into the career straight from school?

Christine: Yeah, well I went to, I did a Bachelor of Arts so I suppose the option of teaching was still there but then I got into the RMIT graduate diploma – and so I’ve been a librarian all my life!

Gill: So your first career – that’s amazing!

6:13

In a profession that brings in people from so many different avenues… Congratulations! That’s really good. You’re a great example for future people. OK – and then expanding our vision a little bit away from the Australian shores. What does global librarianship mean to you, and has that vision changed for you over the years that you’ve been involved in the profession?

Christine:  Well, I suppose my first taste of global librarianship – I’m not sure that’s really the right term – but I did a job exchange to Baltimore County Public Library back in 1990, I went there for 6 months, and boy, did that opened my eyes, and gave me a whole different perspective on things like customer service and the professionalism of the librarians over there. It was really quite an eye-opening thing and I also got to go to my first ALA conference while I was over there and wow, you know, all those librarians… So that really opened up my horizons, I think.

7:16

But the whole thing about global librarianship now, to me, I think is epitomized in the IFLA Global Vision project because we engaged 31,000 people from all the continents and we asked them: ‘What do you see are the strengths, and the opportunities for libraries going forward?’ And I think it was amazing that we all agreed: we share the same goals and values, and we’re all committed to free and equal access to information and I think that’s what it means to me – that we share these values, wherever you go, and that’s great.

7:58

Gill: Well, certainly the whole organization of IFLA supports that interaction on a global scale of, you know, library and information professionals from all across the world. So it’s an amazing organization from that perspective.  And now – you’re currently President, and perhaps it didn’t turn out quite the way you’d expected, given the pandemic that we’re suffering through at the moment. But first of all, how did you get involved with IFLA?

8:29

Christine: Well, firstly, well, I went to my first IFLA conference in 1988, and it was in Sydney. It was also my first ALIA conference, it was a joint conference and I’d have to say, I wasn’t terribly impressed.

8:46

But there again I was, you know, very young and very green, back then.

8:51

So I didn’t really think much about IFLA and then I was invited to join the Bertelsmann Foundation’s International Public Libraries Network. And so I got to know a lot of international colleagues through that and public library colleagues, and we worked together and really valued that relationship. And then when the Bertelsmann Foundation said they were no longer supporting it, we wanted to find a way to keep our connections going and so we found a home at IFLA.

And so, the Metropolitan Library section kind of became the old Bertelsmann network’s second home, I guess, and so I’ve been in the Metropolitan Library section since around 2003. And I was Chair, gosh, 2009 to 2011. it would have been… So yeah, that’s how my involvement with IFLA started.

10:02

Gill: Great, that’s really good. Many many experiences, I’m sure, over all of those years that you’ve actually been involved with IFLA then. So, can you share with us a memorable moment that you have about IFLA, whether that’s a particular session at the WLIC or a meeting or social event that you attended? What really stands out for you?

10:23

Christine: Well, selfishly, I would have to say my acceptance speech in Athens last year… That was for me a highpoint of my career: to be able to stand in front of my colleagues and accept the presidency of IFLA was an amazing opportunity for me.

But there’s another occasion that still warms my heart, and in the introduction, Ray mentioned the founding of the Pacific Libraries Network, and the work we did with that.  We had a summit in Fiji, to bring together all the libraries and library leaders in the Pacific. And then we followed that up in Brisbane, six-eight months later, with another meeting to try and try and develop a plan going forward to keep that connection going. And so, we had 15 librarians and library leaders from around the region and we’re all working on, you know all about workshops, Gill, working away in a workshop, and a group of them said : “Christine, can you come over?” And I said, “Sure.” And one of them said, “Now we know that this IFLA advocacy work. Now, what do we have to do to use that?” And Margaret Terry from Vanuatu, now Vanuatu was a tiny little place, with 300,000 people, a little island out there in the Pacific.  Margaret spoke up and she said, “We don’t have to ask permission: We are IFLA.”

12:03

Well, I just thought, well that’s really the ownership that people have of IFLA is so important. And that we don’t, you know, it’s a tagline, I suppose, but if there’s a lot of meaning behind it and if people really feel engaged they feel like they have ownership, I think that’s really one of the key things.

Gill: Yeah, absolutely that. Yeah, so that the nub of engagement in the profession is, I think, very, very important. And yes, as you say, I do know a fair bit about workshops, with all the Building Strong Library Association workshops that I’ve been involved in through IFLA around the world – they have been just amazing opportunities to interact with people at the global level, if you want to call it that.

Christine: So, we know how valued those workshops have been; we did an evaluation of them and even still now, when we’re talking to the regions and they say what’s important, they are saying, well, making sure that national library associations are strong… so it’s an important thing.

13:09

Gill: It’s really good to know about the lasting impact of the investment that was made through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation into that program, that’s really great.

13:18

And these days, what are you most excited about in the profession?

13:24

Christine: I feel really good about the profession because you know we’ve gone through this horrible year, and I’m on a lot of webinars and discussions and all the rest of it and, in particular, I remember one by the National Library Board of Singapore: they brought together … they called it Leaders’ Conversations, so there were leaders from three different streams: academic, public and national libraries. And what struck me through those conversations and the common themes coming through, and I think the main thing, is how resilient our profession is. That, you know, we were facing all these challenges and you’re closing and you’re opening and you’re closing again and…

I know over in Europe at the moment and my colleagues over there, they’re all busy closing down again. And one of them – I was talking to some of them yesterday and one of them just said – you know it’s a lot easier to open – I mean it’s a lot easier to close than to open. And we are a particularly resilient profession, I think, and you have kind of got to think back to mid 90s when the internet was all brand new. We certainly adapted and made that our own and I think we have that resilience and we can pivot with  the best of them, Gill, I think that we can look at the landscape and we can really see ways forward and we’re all passionate and we all believe so much in libraries.

15:01

Gill: Yes. In my observations about, what’s been happening across the world during the pandemic. The ability of the libraries – librarians particularly, obviously! – to pivot, as you say, to be able to just address the challenges as they come through, and it’s really exciting as you say.

15:21

Despite the negativity of what’s going on around us. Now, with a bit of selfish thought here, with representing CPDWL which is all about professional development… Can you give us a professional development tip or some advice, something that you’d like to share with others. Maybe particularly for those who are new or who’d like to become involved with IFLA?

15:47

Christine: Yes, sure.

15:49

My favorite bit of advice is: seize the opportunities. I think if you’re invited to be on a committee or you’re asked to do something, say yes because you never know where it’s going to lead, you never know. You’ll certainly learn new things, you know you shouldn’t feel concerned that I mightn’t be able to do this, because in particular you’re invited to do something or someone’s seen that, you know, you’re capable of doing it. And so it’s around taking up opportunities and just looking ahead.

16:29

And the other advice. I’ve got, I think this is more a managerial thing than an IFLA thing, is really do well in the job you’re in. You’re always thinking about what’s the next best job I can get. Be really good at the job you’re in and if you do that, you know, you consolidate your skills and people notice if you doing a good job. 

16:56

Gill: That’s right, new doors will open because there are opportunities. And so that’s been a trait of my career, sort of opportunities have come from angles that I wasn’t planning to move into…

Christine: So that’s right. You can’t really map out a career path, can you?

17:14

You never know what’s going to happen and you think, “Oh this job’s perfect for me.” Well, you mightn’t get it or you might get it, then regret it…

So then you need to be adaptable and resilient – and pivot!

17:29

Gill: And then picking up on your first vocabulary, of being responsible, I think it’s the responsibility of people who are working within IFLA on standing committees to think towards the future and to find younger people who do have the potential to get involved, and to do that tapping on the shoulder and to invite them to get involved in those activities.

17:52

It’s a two way street I think from that side.

Christine: Mm hmm.

17:58

Gill: Then, this might be quite a hard question in some ways, which is the focus is on what career you might have chosen instead of librarianship – and you’ve already sort of thrown out the nursing and the teaching.

18:14

But those were the opportunities in those days. Have you had any further thoughts during your career, to sort of think, “oh there’s all these new opportunities and different careers; I’d have been so good or I would have been passionate in that sort of area.” Anything else that inspires?

Christine: Oh, yeah. Oh sometimes. And I’m really happy being a librarian, I don’t think I could have picked a better career for myself. But some areas that I could have been interested in, you know, if you could have a parallel life:  psychology has always interested me. I got quite involved when I was doing, you know like staff developments things, I did the Myers Briggs accreditation course. Also, and I did an Enneagram course. And I found all that quite fascinating. Back in the day, and probably still so now, you had to have mathematics to do psychology and I had no mathematics at all. So that was never really a thing. The other thing, you know, if I was really out there in the wild, some thing in advertising perhaps? I like coming up with new ideas and being creative…

So, I’ve enjoyed for instance learning how to make websites, and that sort of thing. I found that quite interesting… 

19:31

Gill: But I think then, libraries do have, there’s so many strands to the profession, you know, different skills can actually bring those into the field.

Christine: That’s right, you can do it.

19:43

Gill:  It’s interesting, the ideas around the psychology and everything.

19:48

When I was teaching at QUT, Queensland University of Technology, a close colleague there was actually accredited with Myer Briggs as well. And so for several years we actually tested, with their permission, all the new students coming into our course, to actually track the psychology of the profession.

Christine: So, was there a dominant type coming through?

20:15

Gill: Ah, no, there wasn’t, as far as I can remember.

20:20

It was no longer than the introvert, that it changed…

Christine: there’s nothing wrong with introverts, you know ..

Gill: I know…  The traditional sort of, you know, scenario where you’re working behind the scenes, you don’t engage with people and things like that.

Christine: But that’s not really what introversion is about either, a bit because the introversion they talk about is where you get your energy so you get it from yourself, within yourself.

Gill: Yeah.

Christine: But if anyone who knows Myers Briggs is listening, I’m an INFP.

21:00

Gill: Good. And so this is really our final question for the podcast this morning.

21:08

Can you tell us about a recent project or presentation or program that you’re working on, or an upcoming event that you’d like, you will be zooming in and watching might be presenting on. Now I do realize that your schedule is very,very full and you’re in high demand across the world, to be zooming everywhere, so anything that’s sort of particularly important at the moment.

Christine: Oh, I guess the one that comes first to mind is the one at six o’clock tonight, Gill!

21:40

This year, we’ve been working on the IFLA Governance Review, as I’m sure the CPDWL people know…

21:49

And so we’re doing a regional workshop this evening with Asia-Oceania, and talking to them about how to how they think we can best encourage participation and representation in the Asia Oceania region. As part of this new Regional Council we’re forming

22:12

Yeah, so that’s on tonight.

22:15

Gill: Yes, well, you certainly had a very busy week, as I understand. The Governing Board has met, and you’ve had some long sessions online, I think.

22:26

Christine: Yes, we have. It’s a real challenge, but I think the biggest challenge, you know, I don’t mind doing the virtual, online stuff, but it’s the time zones. And I suppose that your section knows that too. I know sections are dealing with it in a different way but it’s impossible, basically to have a time that everyone’s can be kind of synchronously awake.

Gill: That is actually something we have been working on this week, with sort of avoiding ‘the ugly times’, as we call them, for the difficult times all the time. We did hold a single Standing Committee meeting late last year. So we did straddle all of the time zones. But that was in European summer time and it was a little easier than around the wintertime, that shifts it just a bit too much.

But I’m sure it’s been a quieter, in many ways a disappointing year for you. Because it’s such an exciting time to be president of association like IFLA, with the opportunity to visit so many different countries and to interact with people on different continents. So the fact that our borders are closed, ongoing for quite some time, has meant that you’ve had to pivot yourself as well, to become the online persona that you have become.

Christine: Yeah. But anyway, I just wanted to say that it is what it is. Who said that? It still is what it is. 

24:04

I think we should close.

24:10

Gill: So, um, is there anything else you’d like to add?

Christine: Oh, just to wish everyone a very Happy Holidays and let’s hope 2021 is a whole lot better than 2020 has been, hey?

24:25

Gill: There’s a lot of action around vaccinations and things like that beginning to happen so it is the beginning of the end, and lots of better things ahead.

Christine: Let’s hope so. And meanwhile, let’s work together and we are IFLA!

24:43

Gill: Indeed, we are IFLA. Thank you very much indeed for your time. We do realize that you have lots of meetings and lots of interviews and things like that happening so your contributions to our podcast series is just lovely to and to be able to engage with you on a personal level, that’s a little bit more relaxed than, you know, some of all the real professional stuff that you have to do, so thanks!

Christine: Thanks, Gill. Thanks very much. Thank you for your very nice questions and thank you, Ray for organizing it.

Gill: Thank you!