Category Archives: podcast

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 4: Peter Bae (in Korean/한국어)

Colleagues, we are excited to announce the our newest episode (season 4) of the CPDWL Podcast Project where we feature library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work.

Our guest host for this episode is Yujin Hong, Kyung Hee University, South Korea Our guest is Peter Bae, Assistant University Librarian for Scholarly Collection Access, Fulfillment & Resource Sharing at Princeton University Library, USA.

See here for the podcast episode.

Peter Bae is the Assistant University Librarian for Scholarly Collection Access, Fulfillment & Resource Sharing at Princeton University Library and a former member of IFLA Document Delivery and Resource Sharing Section Standing Committee.

Yujin Hong is a librarian at Kyung Hee University, Seoul, South Korea.

Transcript & Translations in Korean and in English:

00:00:04,130 –> 00:00:10,840

Hello and welcome to the IFLA CPDWL

안녕하세요, IFLA CPDWL

00:00:10,840 –> 00:00:14,200

Continuing Professional Development and Workplace Learning Sessions Podcast Project.

지속적인 전문성 개발 및 직장 학습 세션 팟캐스트 프로젝트에 오신 것을 환영합니다.

00:00:14,200 –> 00:00:18,510

Today, I would like to have time to talk with library and information

오늘 이 시간에는 사서의 전문성 개발을 지원하고

00:00:18,510 –> 00:00:20,260

experts who support and participate

참여하는 도서관 및 정보

00:00:20,260 –> 00:00:24,610

in the professional development of librarians.

전문가들과 이야기를 나눠 보는 시간을 가지려고 하는데요.

00:00:24,610 –> 00:00:26,970

Hello, let me introduce myself first.

안녕하세요 제 소개를 먼저 드리겠습니다.

00:00:26,970 –> 00:00:32,000

My name is Yujin Hong. I am the guest host of the podcast today

저는 홍유진이라고 합니다. 오늘 팟캐스트 게스트 호스트입니다

00:00:32,000 –> 00:00:33,900

I am working as a librarian at Kyung

대한민국 서울에 소재하는

00:00:33,900 –> 00:00:38,520

Hee University in Seoul, South Korea.

경희대학교에서 사서로 근무하고 있습니다

00:00:38,520 –> 00:00:42,400

Today’s podcast guest is Seungil Bae,

오늘 팟캐스트 게스트는 미국 프린스턴 대학 도서관에

00:00:42,400 –> 00:00:45,170

a librarian at the Princeton University Library in the United States.

배승일 선생님이십니다.

00:00:45,170 –> 00:00:49,270

Seungil Bae is responsible for scholarly collections access, fulfillment and resource sharing.

배승일 선생님께서는 학술 컬렉션 접근

00:00:49,270 –> 00:00:53,020

He is a member of the former member of Standing Committee of the IFLA

풀필먼트 및 자원 공유를 담당하고 계시고요

00:00:53,020 –> 00:00:58,720

Document Delivery and Resource Sharing Section

IFLA 원문복사 및 자원 공유섹션 전 상임 위원회의 회원이자

00:00:58,720 –> 00:01:03,810

and a founding member of the RSCVD initiative organized by the committee.

위원회에서 조직한 RSCVD 이니셔티브의 창립 멤버이십니다.

00:01:03,810 –> 00:01:08,870

Hong: Hello Mr. Bae Seungil

Bae: Yes hello nice to meet you

배승일 선생님 안녕하세요

네 안녕하십니까 반갑습니다

00:01:08,870 –> 00:01:10,830

It’s really nice to talk about libraries

이렇게 한국 말로

00:01:10,830 –> 00:01:16,770

in Korean like this.

이렇게 한글로.

00:01:16,770 –> 00:01:21,220

I’ve prepared the questions for today.

도서관에 대해서 얘기하게 되어서 정말 좋습니다

00:01:21,220 –> 00:01:25,150

Let me ask you a question.

그러면 저희가 오늘 질문을 준비를 했거든요

00:01:25,150 –> 00:01:28,840

This is the first question.

질문을 드리도록 하겠습니다. 첫 번째 질문인데요

00:01:28,840 –> 00:01:30,520

If you could express yourself in one word,

선생님께서 선생님 자신에 대해서 한 단어로

00:01:30,520 –> 00:01:35,330

what word would you use?

만약에 표현을 하신다면 어떤 단어로 표현하시고 싶으실까요?

00:01:35,330 –> 00:01:41,670

It’s quite difficult. It’s not easy to express it in one word,

상당히 어렵더라고요 한단어로 표한한다는 것이 쉽지는 않은데

00:01:41,670 –> 00:01:43,400

but if I can express it,

표현을 한다면은 저는 호기심

00:01:43,400 –> 00:01:46,070

I’d like to talk as a curious person.

많은 사람으로 이야기를 하고 싶습니다

00:01:46,070 –> 00:01:49,320

I was curious when I was younger, but as I get older

어렸을 때도 호기심이 많았었지만

00:01:49,320 –> 00:01:52,580

I seem to be more and more curious.

나이가 들면서 점점 더 호기심이 많아지는 것 같아요

00:01:52,580 –> 00:01:55,210

Also, in fact, I work as a librarian,

그리고 또 사실은 사서로서 일을 하는데

00:01:55,210 –> 00:01:59,080

and there are always changes, just like our library industry.

우리 도서관 업계가 그렇지만 늘 변화가 있지 않습니까

00:01:59,080 –> 00:02:03,350

So, it seems that an appropriate level of curiosity is definitely necessary.

그래서 적절한 수준의 호기심은 또 꼭 필요한 것 같고요

00:02:03,350 –> 00:02:07,560

As a result, I look for new things with interest,

그러다보니 관심을 가지고 새로운 것들을 찾아 보고

00:02:07,560 –> 00:02:11,320

study them, and go one step further,

그것들에 대해서 공부하고 또 한 단계 더 나아가고

00:02:11,320 –> 00:02:14,140

and in that sense, I would like to express myself as a person

그런 의미에서도 그렇고 호기심이 많은 사람이라고 표현하고 싶습니다

00:02:14,140 –> 00:02:18,710

with a lot of curiosity.

많은 호기심을 가지고.

00:02:18,710 –> 00:02:24,740

I think it’s more relevant in today’s fast-changing times.

요즘같이 급변하는 시대에 더 와닿는 말씀이신 것 같습니다

00:02:24,740 –> 00:02:27,690

That’s right, even in the US,

그렇죠 미국에도 보면은 사서들이 대부분 호기심

00:02:27,690 –> 00:02:30,270

most librarians

이 참 많아요 궁금해서 이것도 찾아 보고

00:02:30,270 –> 00:02:31,220

are very curious.

매우 궁금하다.

00:02:31,220 –> 00:02:36,770

Bae: After that, you’ll build up your skills again.

Hong: yes, thanks for the answer

배승일: 저것도 찾아보고 그러다 보면 또 실력이 쌓이는 거죠

홍유진: 네, 답변 감사합니다.

00:02:36,770 –> 00:02:39,620

I’ll ask you the second question

두 번째 질문 드릴게요

00:02:39,620 –> 00:02:43,040

I would like to know

선생님께서 사서가

00:02:43,040 –> 00:02:45,450

what made you decide to become a librarian.

되시기를 결정한 계기를 좀 알고 싶은데요

00:02:45,450 –> 00:02:48,290

How did you start?

어떻게 시작하셨을까요

00:02:48,290 –> 00:02:51,070

When I was in Korea,

한국에 있을 때

00:02:51,070 –> 00:02:53,140

I operated a small library run by the department

대학원 생활을 하면서

00:02:53,140 –> 00:02:58,270

while studying in graduate school.

그 학과에서 운영하는 작은도서관을 운영을 했었습니다

00:02:58,270 –> 00:03:02,750

I didn’t majored in a library science, but I majored in history in Korea.

도서관학과는 아니었지만 제가 한국에서 역사를 전공했었거든요

00:03:02,750 –> 00:03:07,230

So, I did in charge of the library in the Department of History,

그래서 사학과에 있는 도서관을 제가 이제 담당을 하고

00:03:07,230 –> 00:03:09,670

since I was a graduate student in the Department of History,

사학과 대학원생 이니까 선생님들이

00:03:09,670 –> 00:03:12,480

People thought I would be able to work in the library.

뭐 대학원생이면 충분히 도서관 일 할 수 있을 것이다

00:03:12,480 –> 00:03:13,070

I guess I was entrusted with doing that.

그렇게 하고

00:03:13,070 –> 00:03:18,910

I did things like the so-called collection development

흔히 말하는 장서개발 이라던가 또 학과 도서관에서 여러가지

00:03:18,910 –> 00:03:21,430

and various lending tasks in the department library,

대출업무 이런 것들을 했었고요

00:03:21,430 –> 00:03:25,570

but I didn’t intend to do that as my career.

근데 그걸 제 경력으로 할 생각은 없었습니다

00:03:25,570 –> 00:03:31,200

Then, I came to the United States to study and studied for a doctoral course in history,

그러다가 이제 미국에 유학을 와서 역사학 박사과정으로 유학을 와가지고

00:03:31,200 –> 00:03:36,190

and I started working as a student assistant in the library from the first semester.

첫 학기부터 도서관에서 학생 조교로 일을 시작했었거든요

00:03:36,190 –> 00:03:41,190

What I started doing was doing interlibrary loan work

제가 시작했던 일이 한국에서 말하는 상호 대차 일을 했었습니다

00:03:41,190 –> 00:03:44,370

Students normally do not assigned such a big task,

학생들 같으면 그렇게 큰 업무를 주지는 읺는데

00:03:44,370 –> 00:03:46,280

but they put me that task since I have such an experience in Korea

어떻게 한국에서 그런 경험이 있다고

00:03:46,280 –> 00:03:48,730

So I don’t know if it was like that, but at that time,

그래서 아마 그랬는지 모르겠지만

00:03:48,730 –> 00:03:51,530

I received an interlibrary loan request right away,

그때 이제 바로 상호대차 신청을 받아서

00:03:51,530 –> 00:03:54,140

and I was looking for and sending books to the library,

소장도서관을 찾고 보내고 하는데

00:03:54,140 –> 00:03:56,340

and I did those things as a student.

그런일들을 제가 학생으로서 일을 했습니다.

00:03:56,340 –> 00:04:00,510

Then I found it fun

그러다 보니까 그 일이 재미가 있더라고요

00:04:00,510 –> 00:04:01,490

It’s fun and, above all,

재미도 있고 무엇보다도

00:04:01,490 –> 00:04:07,090

it’s so nice

다른 사람들에게 도움을 줄 수 있다는 게

00:04:07,090 –> 00:04:09,310

to be able to help others.

참 뭐랄까

00:04:09,310 –> 00:04:10,760

It was a good feeling,

기분도 좋은 일이지만

00:04:10,760 –> 00:04:13,650

but it made me feel proud.

좀 뿌듯해지는 그런 마음이 들었어요

00:04:13,650 –> 00:04:19,210

Then, by chance, I was a student assistant,

그러다가 우연한 기회에 이제 그 학생 조교였다가

00:04:19,210 –> 00:04:21,080

and then I was lucky enough to be hired by the library

운이 좋게 정식

00:04:21,080 –> 00:04:23,080

as a full-time professional employee.

풀타임 전문 직원으로 도서관에 고용이 됐었죠

00:04:23,080 –> 00:04:27,790

I didn’t have a LIS degree,

도서관 사서 학위는 없었지만

00:04:27,790 –> 00:04:31,200

but I did it in that profession

그런 직종에서 그 일을 하고

00:04:31,200 –> 00:04:34,270

and still came here to get my PhD.

그러면서 여전히 여기 박사 학위를 받으러 왔으니까

00:04:34,270 –> 00:04:37,620

Once I did my degree full-time,

일단 학위과정을 풀타임으로 들으면서

00:04:37,620 –> 00:04:39,890

I did another full-time job in the library,

도서관에서 또 풀타임 일을 하고

00:04:39,890 –> 00:04:42,090

and spent a few hectic years, more and more

정신없이 몇 년을 보냈는데

00:04:42,090 –> 00:04:43,420

I do the library work,

점점 더 도서관 일이,

00:04:43,420 –> 00:04:47,480

especially with my help,

특히 제가 도움을 줌으로서

00:04:47,480 –> 00:04:50,560

allowed others to keep their research going and

다른 사람들이 연구를 계속 진행해 나가고

00:04:50,560 –> 00:04:52,200

users thanked me

또 고맙다고 인사하고

00:04:52,200 –> 00:04:55,710

As I listened to it, I got paid for it,

고맙다는 인사를 들으면서 그것 때문에 월급도 받고

00:04:55,710 –> 00:04:59,990

and I thought that this would be a decent job.

뭐 이 정도면 괜찮은 직장이 아닌가 생각이 들었었어요

00:04:59,990 –> 00:05:04,390

So that continued and I have already lived

그래서 계속 그게 이어진게

00:05:04,390 –> 00:05:08,880

in the United States for 23 years,

벌써 미국에서 산지 23년이니까

00:05:08,880 –> 00:05:11,930

so during the 23 years

23년 동안

00:05:11,930 –> 00:05:17,600

I moved from the State University of New York (SUNY) at Albany,

이제 처음 일을 시작했던 뉴욕주립대학교(SUNY)올버니(Albany)에서

00:05:17,600 –> 00:05:22,300

where I first started, to Columbia University,

콜롬비아 대학으로 옮기고

00:05:22,300 –> 00:05:24,310

and now I am working at Princeton.

이제 프린스턴에서까지 일을 하게 되었죠

00:05:24,310 –> 00:05:25,090

I became a librarian because of the smiles

뭐 달리 계기라고 하면

00:05:25,090 –> 00:05:33,890

that our users show me when they get the information they need.

그 우리 이용자들이 필요한 자료를 얻었을 때 저한테 보여 주는 그 미소때문에

사서가 되었습니다.

00:05:33,890 –> 00:05:39,630

I didn’t know that you majored in history when you were an undergraduate student.

네, 선생님께서 학부 때 사학을 전공 하신 건 전 잘 몰랐었거든요.

00:05:39,630 –> 00:05:45,500

It was a good to learn more about your background as a librarian.

선생님의 사서가 되신 배경에 대해서 자세히 알 수 있었던 좋은 시간이었습니다.

00:05:45,500 –> 00:05:49,460

In fact, there are many friends in the United States

어떻게 보면은 미국에도 사실은

00:05:49,460 –> 00:05:50,750

who majored in history and received a master’s degree in library science.

역사학을 전공하고 도서관학과 석사를 온 친구들이 참 많습니다

00:05:50,750 –> 00:05:55,540

What I was doing now is interloan work,

제가 하던 일이 이제 상호대차 일이 그렇지만

00:05:55,540 –> 00:06:00,680

but there are many times when the citation bibliographic information

이용자들이 보내 준 citation 서지정보가

100

00:06:00,680 –> 00:06:02,500

sent by users is not accurate.

정확하지 않을 때도 많거든요

101

00:06:02,500 –> 00:06:03,750

The work of solving them

그걸 이제 하나 하나

102

00:06:03,750 –> 00:06:07,580

one by one now and searching for the library

풀어서 필요한 도서관을 찾는 소장하고 있는 도서관을

103

00:06:07,580 –> 00:06:09,230

to find the library

찾아나가고 하는 것들이

104

00:06:09,230 –> 00:06:10,130

you need is, in a way,

어떻게 보면

105

00:06:10,130 –> 00:06:13,930

similar to the work that historians do

그 역사학자들이 원 사료를 찾고 하는 그런 작업하고

106

00:06:13,930 –> 00:06:15,220

to find original historical materials.

비슷더라고요

107

00:06:15,220 –> 00:06:18,810

So I think I enjoyed doing more.

그래서 더 하는 일을 즐겼던 것 같습니다

108

00:06:18,810 –> 00:06:20,770

For the first few years,

처음 몇 년간은 이게 뭐

109

00:06:20,770 –> 00:06:21,910

I didn’t know what I was doing is

내가 일을 하는 건지

110

00:06:21,910 –> 00:06:28,540

enjoying my hobby something.

취미를 즐기는지 모를 정도 였었어요.

111

00:06:28,540 –> 00:06:34,150

So, I’ll ask you the third question.

그럼 세번째 질문 드리겠습니다.

112

00:06:34,150 –> 00:06:38,890

It is quite tricy to translate into Korean, so I’ll just use the world “Global Librarianship”.

한국말로 번역하기가 저도 애매해서 그냥 글로벌 라이브러리언십으로 제가 여쭤볼게요

113

00:06:38,890 –> 00:06:40,680

I’m curious about what

글로벌 라이브러리언십은

114

00:06:40,680 –> 00:06:44,920

the “Global Librarianship” means to you.

선생님께 어떤 의미로 다가오시는지 궁금하거든요

115

00:06:44,920 –> 00:06:52,150

I would like to ask if that vision has changed over the years

수년에 걸쳐서 그 비전이 바뀌었는지 여쭤보고 싶습니다

116

00:06:52,150 –> 00:06:54,880

The “Global Librarianship” I think is, in a sense,

제가 생각하는 글로벌 라이브러리언십은

117

00:06:54,880 –> 00:06:58,040

very closely related to interlibrary loans,

어떤 의미에서는 제가 처음 일을 시작했던 상호대차하고

118

00:06:58,040 –> 00:07:02,690

where I first started working.

상당히 밀접한 연관이 되는데요

119

00:07:02,690 –> 00:07:03,690

Many of the materials that users want

이용자들이 원하는 자료를 중에는

120

00:07:03,690 –> 00:07:06,230

cannot be found only in libraries

미국에 있는 도서관으로만

121

00:07:06,230 –> 00:07:08,240

in the United States.

해결이 안되는 경우가 많습니다

122

00:07:08,240 –> 00:07:11,140

So, from the beginning, when I first started working,

그래서 처음 일을 시작할 때부터

123

00:07:11,140 –> 00:07:15,080

I sent requests for materials to large

외국에 있는 큰 유럽에 있는 큰 국립 도서관 이라든가

124

00:07:15,080 –> 00:07:21,310

national libraries in Europe

진짜 아주 작은 나라의 작은도서관들에까지 필요하면 자료 신청을 보내고

125

00:07:21,310 –> 00:07:22,750

or small libraries in really

126

00:07:22,750 –> 00:07:25,220

small countries, and interacted with them.

그 친구들하고 같이 교류를 하면서 저에게는

127

00:07:25,220 –> 00:07:28,500

It was a “Global Librarianship”.

당연히 그 실제 업무를 하는데 필요한게 바로 글로벌 라이브러리언십이었죠.

128

00:07:28,500 –> 00:07:36,540

And now, while doing IFLA’s activities,

그러면서 이제 IFLA의 활동을 하고 이러면서

129

00:07:36,540 –> 00:07:39,880

librarians working in different countries

서로 다른 배경에서

130

00:07:39,880 –> 00:07:40,730

from different backgrounds

다른 나라에서

131

00:07:40,730 –> 00:07:44,130

exchange opinions and work together,

일하고 있는 사서들이 의견을 교환을 하고 같이 일을 함으로써

132

00:07:44,130 –> 00:07:46,780

so they can learn a lot of things

상호 그니까 양쪽 모두의 도움이 된 여러가지를 배울 수가 있고요

133

00:07:46,780 –> 00:07:51,900

that are helpful to both sides.

134

00:07:51,900 –> 00:07:56,080

So, at first, I thought of this

그래서 저는 처음 시작은 이제 이것을 아주 제

135

00:07:56,080 –> 00:07:59,600

as something very helpful in my daily work,

일상 업무에 도움이 되는 그런 일로 생각을 하다가

136

00:07:59,600 –> 00:08:02,680

but it gradually became an opportunity to learn.

점점 이제 배우는 기회가 되었고요

137

00:08:02,680 –> 00:08:05,710

And one more interesting thing is

그리고 또 한가지 더 재밌는 일은 다들 그 어떻게 보면

138

00:08:05,710 –> 00:08:07,430

that everyone is in such a different environment

이런 다른 환경에 있을 하기 때문에 처리하는 업무방식도

139

00:08:07,430 –> 00:08:11,280

in a way,

조금씩 다르고

140

00:08:11,280 –> 00:08:12,880

so the way

또 각국의 뭐

141

00:08:12,880 –> 00:08:14,760

they handle business is slightly different,

저작권법이리던지

142

00:08:14,760 –> 00:08:15,840

and the way they work is different

이런 것들은 따르다보면 일을 하는 방식은 다르지만

143

00:08:15,840 –> 00:08:20,680

like copyright laws in each country,

144

00:08:20,680 –> 00:08:23,720

but in the end, a librarian is a librarian.

결국 도서관 사서는 사서거든요

145

00:08:23,720 –> 00:08:28,380

Wherever you are, I think so, so in the end,

어느 나라에 있든지 간에 저는 그렇게 생각을 합니다,

146

00:08:28,380 –> 00:08:29,680

librarians are all the same

결국엔 그 이용자들 위해

147

00:08:29,680 –> 00:08:32,540

in terms of servicing for the users

이용자들을 위해서 서비스한다는 면에서는

148

00:08:32,540 –> 00:08:34,280

and for the users,

사서들은 다 똑같은 거니까

149

00:08:34,280 –> 00:08:37,390

so there are things in common in that respect.

그런 면에서는 서로 통하는 게 있고

150

00:08:37,390 –> 00:08:42,280

Recently, as I mentioned earlier,

최근에는 이제 앞에 잠깐 얘기를 하셨는데

151

00:08:42,280 –> 00:08:47,490

as I started the RSCVD initiative,

RSCVD 이니셔티브를 시작하면서

152

00:08:47,490 –> 00:08:52,960

I was not simply serving the users in my own library,

단순히 자기 도서관에 있는 이용자들에게만 봉사를 하는 것이 아니라

153

00:08:52,960 –> 00:08:55,730

but I was wondering if there is an opportunity to work with

세계 여러 곳에 있는 자료가

154

00:08:55,730 –> 00:09:00,030

people who need information from

그러니까 정보가 필요한 이들에게

155

00:09:00,030 –> 00:09:02,300

in various parts of the world.

일을 할 수 있는 그런 기회가 있지 않나해서

156

00:09:02,300 –> 00:09:06,040

Recently now, in fact, three or four days ago in The Hague, IFLA has its headquarters in The Hague.

최근 이제 사실은 사나흘 전에 헤이그에서 헤이그에 IFLA 본부가 있죠.

157

00:09:06,040 –> 00:09:13,010

There was a conference on interlibrary loans at the IFL:A Headquarters, and

IFL:A 본부에서 상호대차 관련 컨퍼런스가 있었는데 거기에 제가 온라인으로

158

00:09:13,010 –> 00:09:19,100

as I participated online,

참가를 하면서 이제 그것과 관련해서

159

00:09:19,100 –> 00:09:24,560

I now learned about the interlibrary

도서관들의 상호대차하고

160

00:09:24,560 –> 00:09:28,020

loans of libraries and resource sharing in relation to it.

리소스 쉐어링이라고 자료공유를 이제 어떤 위기상황이라던가

161

00:09:28,020 –> 00:09:31,330

Can we mutually borrow or exchange with each other?

국가간에 분쟁이 있는 지역에서 어떻게 도서관들이 서로 상호대차 라든가 교류를 할 수 있을까

162

00:09:31,330 –> 00:09:35,300

For example, after the war between Ukraine and Russia started last year

예를 들면 지난해 우크라이나와 러시아 전쟁이 시작이 되고

163

00:09:35,300 –> 00:09:41,710

and the war started right away in the library in Ukraine,

우크라이나에 있는 도서관에서 당장 전쟁이 시작된 이후에는 별 것이 없었지만

164

00:09:41,710 –> 00:09:46,900

there was nothing special,

165

00:09:46,900 –> 00:09:48,590

but after that, it stabilized little by little, looking for necessary materials

그 이후에 조금씩 안정이 되면서 필요한 자료를 찾고

166

00:09:48,590 –> 00:09:51,820

and providing materials through the RSCVD initiative I started.

제가 시작했던 RSCVD 이니셔티브를 통해서 자료를 제공해 주고도 있거든요

167

00:09:51,820 –> 00:09:58,830

In a way, the library does not simply serve the users of the library,

어떻게 보면 도서관이 단순히 그냥 자관에 있는 이용자들만을 위해 봉사하는 게 아니라

168

00:09:58,830 –> 00:10:01,630

I think I can do a little bigger thing, and in a way,

조금 더 큰일을 할 수 있고 어떻게 보면

169

00:10:01,630 –> 00:10:07,320

I can do things for the world, targeting the whole world.

전세계를 대상으로 세계를 위해 일을 할 수 있지 않는가

170

00:10:07,320 –> 00:10:11,360

That’s how I think.

그렇게 생각이 점점 바뀌어 지고 있는 것 같습니다

171

00:10:11,360 –> 00:10:15,340

I also worked on interlibrary loan/DDS,

저도 상호대차 원문복사 업무를 하긴 했었는데

172

00:10:15,340 –> 00:10:18,960

but I didn’t think that

이렇게 범위가 커질 수 있다는

173

00:10:18,960 –> 00:10:20,760

the range could be this large.

것을 생각하지 못했던 것 같아요

174

00:10:20,760 –> 00:10:25,090

Not even then. After hearing what you said,

그떄는 미처. 선생님 말씀 들어보니까

175

00:10:25,090 –> 00:10:27,520

I think that there must be a way to interact with librarians

다양한 방식으로 또 다양한

176

00:10:27,520 –> 00:10:35,230

from various institutions and countries in various ways.

기관과 다양한 국가의 사서들과 교류할 수 있는 방법이 있겠다라는 생각이 드네요

177

00:10:35,230 –> 00:10:40,860

In the end, the librarians all try to help each other,

결국 사서들이 다들 조금씩 방식은 다르지만

178

00:10:40,860 –> 00:10:42,720

albeit in slightly different ways.

서로 도울려고 하고요

179

00:10:42,720 –> 00:10:46,660

Going back to the question I asked earlier,

제가 아까 앞에서 한 질문으로 같이 잠시 돌아가면

180

00:10:46,660 –> 00:10:47,790

the reason I really like to work in the library

제가 도서관에서 정말 일하기를 좋아하는 이유가

181

00:10:47,790 –> 00:10:52,720

is that there is no competition within the library

다른 일반 회사 라든가 다른 직장과 달리

182

00:10:52,720 –> 00:10:54,020

unlike other companies or other workplaces.

도서관 내에서는 경쟁이 없습니다.

183

00:10:54,020 –> 00:10:58,920

Employees try to help each other,

직원들이 서로 도와주려고 하고

184

00:10:58,920 –> 00:11:01,280

at least from my experience.

적어도 제가 경험한 바로는 그렇습니다

185

00:11:01,280 –> 00:11:06,050

And I always work with librarians abroad or in other libraries,

그리고 해외나 다른 도서관에 있는 사서들과 늘 같이 일을 하고

186

00:11:06,050 –> 00:11:09,470

and I try to do something by working together.

같이 힘을 모아서 뭘 해 나가려고 하니까요

187

00:11:09,470 –> 00:11:12,490

In that respect, the library is good now.

그런 면에서 이제 도서관이 좋은 거죠

188

00:11:12,490 –> 00:11:15,790

Bae: I like my job as a librarian.

Hong: you’re right.

배승일: 사서라는 직업도 좋고.

홍유진: 맞습니다

189

00:11:15,790 –> 00:11:22,960

I agree. Then, the story of IFLA keeps coming up.

동의합니다. 그러면 선생님 그 IFLA 얘기가 계속 나와서 그런데요

190

00:11:22,960 –> 00:11:24,790

By the way, let me ask you a question.

질문 한번 드려 보겠습니다

191

00:11:24,790 –> 00:11:28,030

I’m curious about how you first

어떻게 IFLA에 처음 참여하게 되셨는지가

192

00:11:28,030 –> 00:11:28,770

became involved in IFLA.

궁금하거든요

193

00:11:28,770 –> 00:11:33,360

The Director attended the IFLA

IFLA에 대해서 처음 얘기를 들은 건

194

00:11:33,360 –> 00:11:39,050

General Assembly

제가 2006년인가 2007년 무렵에 Albany에서 일을 할 때인데

195

00:11:39,050 –> 00:11:43,940

held in IFLA Seoul.

그때 관장님이 IFLA 서울에서 열린 IFLA 총회에 참석을 하셨어요

196

00:11:43,940 –> 00:11:45,630

And now, when they came back,

그리고 이제 서울에서 대접

197

00:11:45,630 –> 00:11:46,720

they told me about how they were treated well in Seoul.

잘 받은 얘기를 돌아와서 저한테 해주시더라고요.

198

00:11:46,720 –> 00:11:51,750

I was very proud.

아주 가슴이 뿌듯해졌었는데요.

199

00:11:51,750 –> 00:11:56,530

It was probably in 2011 when I started working for IFLA in earnest.

제가 본격적으로 IFLA의 활동을 하기 시작한 건 아마 2011년 그 정도 될 것 같습니다.

200

00:11:56,530 –> 00:12:02,820

It looks like it will be around 2010.

201

00:12:02,820 –> 00:12:05,220

A biennial conference held by the IFLA Interloan Standing Committee

미국에서 IFLA 상호대차 상임위원회에서 했던 2년마다 한 번씩 하는 컨퍼런스가 시카고에서 열렸었어요

202

00:12:05,220 –> 00:12:10,980

was held in Chicago.

시카고에 있었다.

203

00:12:10,980 –> 00:12:15,060

I was able to go to that conference,

그 컨퍼런스에 가서 이제 발표하는 것들을 듣고 거기서

204

00:12:15,060 –> 00:12:18,680

listen to the presentations, and make many friends there.

여러 친구들을 많이 사귈 수가 있었거든요

205

00:12:18,680 –> 00:12:22,020

The friends I met then still work with,

그때 만났던 친구들이 아직까지 같이 일을 하고 있는데

206

00:12:22,020 –> 00:12:25,700

but there was one incident in particular

특히 그 컨퍼런스에서 아주 기억이

207

00:12:25,700 –> 00:12:30,560

that I remember very much from that conference that made me think about IFLA.

IFLA에 관한 제 생각을 하게 해 준 사건이 하나 있었습니다

208

00:12:30,560 –> 00:12:31,650

Many librarians from all over the world

컨퍼런스에 이제 세계 각국에서 사서들이 다 많이 모였는데

209

00:12:31,650 –> 00:12:34,750

have gathered at the conference, and among them,

특히 그 중에서

210

00:12:34,750 –> 00:12:35,530

there is now a country called Zimbabwe

이제 아프리카에 있는 짐바브웨라는 나라가 있어요

211

00:12:35,530 –> 00:12:39,330

in Africa.

남아프리카공화국

212

00:12:39,330 –> 00:12:40,740

I met a librarian from Zimbabwe,

북쪽에 있는 짐바브웨라는 나라에서 온 사서를 만났었습니다

213

00:12:40,740 –> 00:12:46,260

a country north of South Africa.

남아프리카공화국 북쪽에 있는 나라.

214

00:12:46,260 –> 00:12:46,980

We exchanged business cards,

명함 교환하고

215

00:12:46,980 –> 00:12:50,750

greeted each other,

서로 인사하고

216

00:12:50,750 –> 00:12:57,050

talked about this and that, and parted

이제 이런저런 얘기를 쭉 나누고 헤어졌었는데

217

00:12:57,050 –> 00:12:57,600

Actually, it was the first time I met someone

사실 짐바브웨라는 나라에서 온 사람 만난 것도 처음이었고

218

00:12:57,600 –> 00:13:00,900

from a country called Zimbabwe.

219

00:13:00,900 –> 00:13:04,730

Upon returning to my work, the professor

그 컨퍼런스를 마치고 학교에 돌아오니까 교수님이

220

00:13:04,730 –> 00:13:08,070

requested for a doctoral dissertation,

박사논문을 신청하는데

221

00:13:08,070 –> 00:13:09,520

which was published at a university

짐바브웨에 있는 대학에서 발표가 된 박사논문을 신청을 하셨어요

222

00:13:09,520 –> 00:13:15,740

in Zimbabwe.

짐바브웨에서.

223

00:13:15,740 –> 00:13:18,550

Normally, I would be wondering

보통 때 같으면 짐바브웨 같은데서 있는

224

00:13:18,550 –> 00:13:20,970

how to get a thesis in Zimbabwe,

논문을 어떻게 구하나하고 헤매고 있을 텐데

225

00:13:20,970 –> 00:13:24,850

but I just remembered the friend I met last week,

바로 그냥 지난주에 만났던 그 친구가 떠올라서 그 친구한테

226

00:13:24,850 –> 00:13:25,600

so I emailed him.

이메일을 했죠

227

00:13:25,600 –> 00:13:29,300

In this situation, I asked if I could get it,

이런이런 상황인데 혹시 구할 수 있겠느냐 하니까 이 친구가

228

00:13:29,300 –> 00:13:33,680

so this friend again connected to the library of the university

또 자기가 일하고 있는 도서관은 아니지마는

229

00:13:33,680 –> 00:13:39,180

where the doctoral dissertation was published,

그 박사학위논문이 출판된 대학의 도서관에 연결을 해서 결국은

230

00:13:39,180 –> 00:13:40,890

although it is not the library

비록 도서관은 아니지만.

231

00:13:40,890 –> 00:13:44,190

he is working in, and eventually received the thesis in 2-3 days. I could

2-3일만에 논문을 학위논문을 받아볼 수가 있었어요

232

00:13:44,190 –> 00:13:47,720

If it wasn’t for the kind of relationship I met at IFLA,

IFLA에서 만난 그런 인연이 아니었으면 전혀 이루어질 수 없는 아예

233

00:13:47,720 –> 00:13:50,340

it was something I had to give up on, something that could not have happened at all.

포기해야 될 일이었었죠

234

00:13:50,340 –> 00:13:53,970

When I think about it while doing that, IFLA has this kind of power.

그렇게 하면서 생각하니까 IFLA라는 게 이런 힘이 있구나

235

00:13:53,970 –> 00:13:57,410

In particular, from the perspective of the person in charge of the practice,

특히 실무를 맡은 담당자

236

00:13:57,410 –> 00:14:04,680

I wanted to become a really valuable resource,

입장에서는 정말 귀중한 자원이 되겠다 싶어서 더 활동을 하기 시작했고

237

00:14:04,680 –> 00:14:07,210

so I started to do more activities,

더 활동을 하기 시작했고

238

00:14:07,210 –> 00:14:09,390

so I have been attending as a standing member of the standing committee since 2013.

그래서 2013년부터 이제 상임위원회 상임위원으로 참석을 했었습니다

239

00:14:09,390 –> 00:14:12,360

Finally, the library actively supported it again.

마침 도서관에서 또 지원을 적극적으로 해주셨고요

240

00:14:12,360 –> 00:14:16,580

Because the librart director had a lot of interest in IFLA,

관장님이 IFLA에 대해서 관심을 많이 가지셨던 분이었기 때문에

241

00:14:16,580 –> 00:14:21,350

that’s how I attended the first IFLA congress

그렇게 해서 처음 싱가포르에서 열린 IFLA 대회 참석을 하고

242

00:14:21,350 –> 00:14:26,490

held in Singapore and continued that way.

그렇게 쭉 이어오게 된 거죠

243

00:14:26,490 –> 00:14:31,170

Your first experience was very meaningful.

첫 경험이 굉장히 의미가 있으셨네요

244

00:14:31,170 –> 00:14:33,880

So now, in fact, even in the US,

그래서 이제 그렇게 만든 인연들을

245

00:14:33,880 –> 00:14:37,250

I am not alone in writing the relationships I have created,

사실은 미국에서도 제가 저 혼자만 쓰는 게 아니고

246

00:14:37,250 –> 00:14:41,150

and the relationships I have created are also shared.

제가 만든 인연들도 공유를 하거든요

247

00:14:41,150 –> 00:14:43,410

Now, among the librarians who are

지금 사서들 사이에서

248

00:14:43,410 –> 00:14:45,380

in charge of inter library loans in the US,

이제 미국에서도 Inter library loan(상호대차)담당하고 있는 사서들 사이에서는

249

00:14:45,380 –> 00:14:48,060

they can contact me if they need it

제가 이제 해외 각국의 마당발로

250

00:14:48,060 –> 00:14:52,140

because I now have a network overseas.

네트워크가 있으니까 필요하면 저한테 연락을 하게 돼요

251

00:14:52,140 –> 00:14:54,250

I need this kind of data from Brazil.

브라질에서 이런 자료가 필요한데

252

00:14:54,250 –> 00:14:57,450

Does anyone know people in Brazil know? And there is!

혹시 브라질 누가 아는 사람이 있느냐? 있거든요

253

00:14:57,450 –> 00:14:58,980

So, I tried this and that,

그래서 이리저리 해보니까

254

00:14:58,980 –> 00:15:03,010

and I made people who can connect with people all over the world.

세계 각국에 왠만하면 다 연결이 될만한 사람들을 만들었어죠

255

00:15:03,010 –> 00:15:06,370

for the past 10 years. I guess that’s a great fortune

지난 10년간. 그게 큰 재산인 것 같습니다

256

00:15:06,370 –> 00:15:09,720

That’s right, do you really have all continents?

그러네요, 정말 대륙별로 다 있으시겠어요

257

00:15:09,720 –> 00:15:13,430

Yes it is

예 그렇죠

258

00:15:13,430 –> 00:15:17,750

Then, while talking about IFLA, I would like to hear more about IFLA.

그러면 IFLA 얘기 나온 김에 IFLA 얘기를 좀 더 들어 보고 싶은데요

259

00:15:17,750 –> 00:15:21,170

You also told me about a memorable moment related to IFLA,

선생님께서 IFLA 관련해서 기억에 남는 순간

260

00:15:21,170 –> 00:15:23,330

but the librarian from Zimbabwe also talked about it,

짐바브웨 사서분도 얘기해 주셨지만

261

00:15:23,330 –> 00:15:27,870

but if you have any other experiences, please share.

혹시나 다른 경험이 있으셨으면 공유 부탁드리겠습니다

262

00:15:27,870 –> 00:15:35,940

I wonder if you had any social gatherings after attending WLIC sessions or meetings?

WLIC 세션이나 회의 또는 참석하고 나서 사교모임도 혹시 있으셨는지도 궁금하고요

263

00:15:35,940 –> 00:15:41,540

Yes. If you go to the IFLA World Library Information Congress,

그렇죠. IFLA World Library Information Congress에 가면은 공식

264

00:15:41,540 –> 00:15:45,460

one of the official events is Cultural Night,

행사 중에 하나가 Cultural Night이라고 해서

265

00:15:45,460 –> 00:15:52,220

so the host country now introduces 10 traditional foods

주최 국가에서 이제 열 가지 전통 음식도 소개하고

266

00:15:52,220 –> 00:15:54,910

and introduces traditional culture.

전통 문화를 소개하는 행사들이 있습니다

267

00:15:54,910 –> 00:15:57,630

Maybe in Korea, in 2006 or 2007,

아마 한국에서도 지난 2006년인가 2007년에 할 때

268

00:15:57,630 –> 00:15:59,190

they did very well, and the librarians

엄청나게 잘 해가지고

269

00:15:59,190 –> 00:16:03,910

who went there are still talking about it.

그때 갔던 사서들이 아직까지도 그 얘기를 하거든요

270

00:16:03,910 –> 00:16:07,370

in the case of Singapore,

처음 갔던 싱가포르 같은 경우도 싱가포르

271

00:16:07,370 –> 00:16:11,070

which I had attended for the first time,

처음 참석했던 곳,

272

00:16:11,070 –> 00:16:12,740

there was an event like that in the evening

저녁에 그런 행사가 있었어요

273

00:16:12,740 –> 00:16:17,820

on the beach at Sentosa Island, Singapore.

그 앞에 있는 센토사 아일랜드에서 이제 해변가에서 저녁에 그런 행사가 있었어요

274

00:16:17,820 –> 00:16:20,490

It’s fun. There are many fun things to do,

재밌는 일이죠. 재밌는 일이 많은데

275

00:16:20,490 –> 00:16:25,390

but the most memorable thing for me was probably a congress held in Lyon, France,

사실은 저한테 제일 기억에 남는 일은 그게 아마 프랑스 리옹에서 열렸던 대회였는데

276

00:16:25,390 –> 00:16:35,120

where I met librarians from North Korea.

북한에서 오신 사서들을 만났었어요

277

00:16:35,120 –> 00:16:36,910

I didn’t know, but now another friend

저는 몰랐는데 이제 그 옆에 있던 다른 친구가

278

00:16:36,910 –> 00:16:39,260

next to me is a librarian here from North Korea

여기 북한에서 온 사서들인데 만나 보라고 해서

279

00:16:39,260 –> 00:16:41,280

and asked me to meet him,

그리고 만나자고 했다,

280

00:16:41,280 –> 00:16:43,860

so we sat down together at the table

이제 같이 테이블에 앉아서

281

00:16:43,860 –> 00:16:46,300

and talked like this while drinking coffee.

이렇게 커피를 나누면서 얘기를 했었거든요

282

00:16:46,300 –> 00:16:50,890

This is the person who is sitting

이렇게 김일성 배지를 달고 앉아 계시는 분인데

283

00:16:50,890 –> 00:16:55,580

wearing the Kim Il-sung badge.

김일성 휘장을 달고 있다.

284

00:16:55,580 –> 00:16:57,370

Was it the library

그 인민대학습당 도서관 이었나

285

00:16:57,370 –> 00:17:00,580

of the Great

그래서 거기서 이제 오신 분들 하고

286

00:17:00,580 –> 00:17:02,950

People’s Study Hall?

얘기를 하고 사실은

287

00:17:02,950 –> 00:17:06,170

I probably don’t know how it goes.

북한에서 온 분들은 처음 만났었으니까요. 아마 모르겠습니다 어떻게 되는지

288

00:17:06,170 –> 00:17:10,300

Legally, I know there’s no big problem with such meetings,

법적으로는 그런 만남은 큰 문제는 없는 걸로 알고 있는데

289

00:17:10,300 –> 00:17:13,440

but I talked with them in the library,

그 분들하고 도서관에서 얘기를 하고

290

00:17:13,440 –> 00:17:16,170

and then I met people from North Korea

그리고 나서 몇 번 이제 폴란드에서 했을 때도

291

00:17:16,170 –> 00:17:19,820

a few times when I was in Poland, and after that,

북한에서 오신 분들을 만났었고

292

00:17:19,820 –> 00:17:22,960

I met people from North Korea once again in Malaysia.

그 이후에 말레이시아에서도 한번 이제 제가 또 알고

293

00:17:22,960 –> 00:17:26,120

A North Korean librarian I knew and met at the time came,

그때 만났던 북한 사서분이 오셨길래

294

00:17:26,120 –> 00:17:29,160

so I went back and forth

한국에서 오신 사서 선생님들과 연결을 하려고 제가 몇번 왔다

295

00:17:29,160 –> 00:17:31,550

a few times to connect with the librarians from South Korea.

갔다 하기도 했었는데

296

00:17:31,550 –> 00:17:35,700

One of them is memorable for the person

그분들 중에 한 분이 기억에 남는 게 북한 평양 중앙에

297

00:17:35,700 –> 00:17:39,870

who came from the science library

이제 그 섬에 있는 과학도서관

298

00:17:39,870 –> 00:17:43,790

located on the island in the center of Pyongyang, North Korea.

그런데서 오신 분 얘기가 도서관 안에

299

00:17:43,790 –> 00:17:45,790

The library is not just a library,

단순히 도서관만 있는 게 아니라

300

00:17:45,790 –> 00:17:47,460

but also a hotel, restaurant

북한의 여러 지방에서 온

301

00:17:47,460 –> 00:17:50,600

where scholars from various regions of North Korea can stay.

학자들이 숙박을 할 수 있는 호텔

302

00:17:50,600 –> 00:17:54,130

It is said that everything is included in the library

식당 이런 것까지 도서관에 다 포함되어 도서관 건물 안에 다 있다고 그러더라고요

303

00:17:54,130 –> 00:17:55,230

and is in the library building.

304

00:17:55,230 –> 00:17:55,990

In a way, I thought

어떻게 보면

305

00:17:55,990 –> 00:17:59,910

that the library itself is a facility

도서관이라는 시설 자체가 학자들이 거기서 먹고

306

00:17:59,910 –> 00:18:01,700

where scholars can study

자면서 공부까지 할 수 있는 그런

307

00:18:01,700 –> 00:18:03,780

while eating and sleeping there.

시설이구나 싶은게

308

00:18:03,780 –> 00:18:07,330

Of course, I thought that

도서관에 관한 생각은 물론

309

00:18:07,330 –> 00:18:11,510

although the systems of South and North

어쨌든 남한 북한 국가가 체제는 다르지만

310

00:18:11,510 –> 00:18:14,000

Korea are different,

도서관은 도서관에 관한 생각들은

311

00:18:14,000 –> 00:18:17,280

the thoughts about libraries are similar.

비슷한 게 아닌가 하는 생각도 했었구요

312

00:18:17,280 –> 00:18:19,980

After that, I haven’t seen the other people,

그 이후에는 다른분들은 뵙지를 못 했는데

313

00:18:19,980 –> 00:18:23,140

but if I can see them at another IFLA congress next time,

아마 다음에 또 다른 IFLA 대회에서 볼 수 있다면

314

00:18:23,140 –> 00:18:29,020

they’re the people I want to meet and talk with again.

한번 꼭 또 만나서 얘기를 해보고 싶은 분들입니다.

315

00:18:29,020 –> 00:18:33,480

Hong: You had a very unforgettable experience.

Bae: Yes

홍유진: 굉장히 잊지 못할 그런 경험을 하셨네요

배승일: 그렇죠

316

00:18:33,480 –> 00:18:35,190

If you don’t do that, it’s really

그렇게 하지 않으면 정말

317

00:18:35,190 –> 00:18:36,710

not easy to see North Koreans in everyday life

저희 같은 평범한 사람으로

318

00:18:36,710 –> 00:18:41,050

Hong: as ordinary people like us.

Bae: Yes

홍유진: 북한사람을 일상에서 보기는 쉽지가 않잖아요

배승일: 그렇죠

319

00:18:41,050 –> 00:18:43,320

Also, to be honest, when I first met them in

그리고 또 사실은 저도 처음 뵀을 때

320

00:18:43,320 –> 00:18:47,760

Lyon, France, in fact,

프랑스 리옹에서 뵀을 때는 사실은 그 분들을 그 전에

321

00:18:47,760 –> 00:18:51,320

I saw them like this while passing by,

이제 지나가면서 이렇게 봤는데

322

00:18:51,320 –> 00:18:54,020

and I have that feeling.

그런 느낌있죠.

323

00:18:54,020 –> 00:18:56,780

If there is someone I don’t know,

모르는 사람 있으면

324

00:18:56,780 –> 00:18:58,080

Koreans have the feeling that even if they

한국 사람들은 외국에 가서 이렇게 만나더라도

325

00:18:58,080 –> 00:19:01,460

go abroad and meet like this, they must be Korean.

한국 사람 일꺼야 하는 느낌이 있고요

326

00:19:01,460 –> 00:19:03,200

Seeing as someone from North Korea,

북한에서 오신 분이다 보니까

327

00:19:03,200 –> 00:19:07,400

I could feel that kind of feeling.

어떤 그런 느낌이 그냥 와닿더라구요

328

00:19:07,400 –> 00:19:11,260

I came close to you,

와닿다가 이제 직접 만나 뵙고 얘기를 나누고

329

00:19:11,260 –> 00:19:12,080

and now I met and talked to you in person, so now,

그래서 이제 근데

330

00:19:12,080 –> 00:19:14,990

but actually, I wanted to talk to them a little more,

그 분들하고 사실은 좀 더 얘기를 좀 나누고 싶었는데

331

00:19:14,990 –> 00:19:16,840

but they also had their own situations,

또 그분들은 그분들대로의 또 상황이 있으니까

332

00:19:16,840 –> 00:19:19,840

so they moved separately, but anyway,

따로 움직이시고 그랬었는데 어쨌든 그렇습니다

333

00:19:19,840 –> 00:19:24,320

that’s how it was, working as a librarian

도서관 사서로서 일하면서

334

00:19:24,320 –> 00:19:29,250

There aren’t many opportunities to exprience that

그런 경험을 할 기회는 많지 않지요

335

00:19:29,250 –> 00:19:31,930

Listening to it, I hope that

들어보니까 저도 언젠가 한 번은

336

00:19:31,930 –> 00:19:37,490

I will have the opportunity to go to IFLA at least once.

꼭 IFLA에 갈 수 있는 기회가 있었으면 좋겠네요.

337

00:19:37,490 –> 00:19:38,640

I don’t know when it will be possible,

언제가 될 수 있을지 모르겠습니다만

338

00:19:38,640 –> 00:19:40,260

but try it once, please think about it

한번 해보십쇼 꼭 한번 생각을 해보십쇼

339

00:19:40,260 –> 00:19:45,310

Especially since IFLA is actually not easy to attend.

특히 IFLA가 사실은 참석하는 게 쉽지는 않거든요

340

00:19:45,310 –> 00:19:46,440

You have to travel,

여행을 해야 되고

341

00:19:46,440 –> 00:19:48,160

and registration fees

또 뭐 등록비라던가

342

00:19:48,160 –> 00:19:53,060

and things like that are quite expensive.

이런 것들이 상당히 좀 비싸죠

343

00:19:53,060 –> 00:19:55,540

Well, there are also various grants,

뭐 또 여러가지 grant도 있고

344

00:19:55,540 –> 00:19:59,200

and since Korea has recently become an advanced country,

한국은 최근에 이제 이미 선진국으로 되어 있기 때문에

345

00:19:59,200 –> 00:20:01,170

it probably won’t be easy to get a grant.

아마 grant를 받기는 쉽지는 않을 겁니다

346

00:20:01,170 –> 00:20:02,970

However, IFLA recruits

하지만은 IFLA에서

347

00:20:02,970 –> 00:20:04,140

volunteers every year,

매년 할 때마다 자원봉사자를 모집을 하는데

348

00:20:04,140 –> 00:20:05,800

and if you are selected as a volunteer,

자원봉사자로 선택이 되면은 등록비라던가

349

00:20:05,800 –> 00:20:08,620

registration fees and other things

이런 것들이 좀 면제가 되고요

350

00:20:08,620 –> 00:20:11,710

are exempted,

좀 저렴한 숙소 같은 것도 제공을 받을 수 있으니까

351

00:20:11,710 –> 00:20:14,830

and you can get cheaper accommodations.

그런 것도 한번 노려보시고

352

00:20:14,830 –> 00:20:16,310

I think it would be good to try something like that

그런 것도 한번 생각해 보시면 좋을 것 같습니다

353

00:20:16,310 –> 00:20:19,740

and think about it for a while.

그리고 잠시 생각해 보십시오.

354

00:20:19,740 –> 00:20:23,170

Okay thank you for the good information

알겠습니다 좋은 정보 감사합니다

355

00:20:23,170 –> 00:20:26,430

then I’ll try to talk about something else this time

그러면 이번에는 다른 얘기를 해 보려고 합니다

356

00:20:26,430 –> 00:20:30,980

I have some questions about your career.

선생님 커리어 관련돼서 궁금한 것들이 있어 가지고요

357

00:20:30,980 –> 00:20:34,840

You are now working at Princeton University.

지금 이제 Princeton 대학에서 근무를 하고 계시는데

358

00:20:34,840 –> 00:20:38,560

What are you most looking forward to

현재 사서로서의 커리어에서 가장 기대 되시거나

359

00:20:38,560 –> 00:20:45,880

or interesting about your current career as a librarian?

흥미로운신 부분이 있으시다면 어떤 게 있으실지가 궁금합니다

360

00:20:45,880 –> 00:20:53,340

There may be my personal career as a librarian,

사서로서의 제 개인적인 커리어도 있겠지만은

361

00:20:53,340 –> 00:20:56,260

but actually there are many things in the library.

도서관에서 사실은 여러 가지 아까

362

00:20:56,260 –> 00:20:57,530

At first, when we started,

처음에 우리가 시작할 때

363

00:20:57,530 –> 00:21:00,510

we kept talking about change,

뭐 자꾸 변화에 대한 이야기들을 많이 했었는데

364

00:21:00,510 –> 00:21:02,930

but among the work I’m doing now,

지금 제가 하고 있는 업무 가운데

365

00:21:02,930 –> 00:21:08,410

especially in the US,

특히 이제 미국에서는

366

00:21:08,410 –> 00:21:10,970

it’s called Controlled Digital Lending (CDL),

Controlled Digital Lending(컨트롤 디지털 랜딩)이라고

367

00:21:10,970 –> 00:21:15,040

so this is being talked about as a hot topic in a way.

CDL 이라고 해서 이 것이 지금 가장 어떻게 보면 핫 토픽으로 얘기가 되고 있는데요

368

00:21:15,040 –> 00:21:18,440

If translated into Korean,

한국식으로 번역을 하면은 통제

369

00:21:18,440 –> 00:21:19,690

I don’t know

모르겠습니다

370

00:21:19,690 –> 00:21:23,550

if it will be translated to

통제 controlled

371

00:21:23,550 –> 00:21:27,970

this extent.

통제된 디지털 랜딩 디지털 대출 이정도 번역이 될는지는 모르겠습니다

372

00:21:27,970 –> 00:21:30,820

Recently, there seems to have been a little report in Korea,

최근에 아마 한국에도 보도가 조금 된 것 같은데

373

00:21:30,820 –> 00:21:35,770

but an organization called the Internet Archive

인터넷 아카이브라는 기관에서

374

00:21:35,770 –> 00:21:39,460

based on this CDL principle

이 CDL 원칙에 입각해서

375

00:21:39,460 –> 00:21:40,890

scanned the printed book they purchased

자기들이 구입한 인쇄 책을 스캐닝을 하고

376

00:21:40,890 –> 00:21:44,100

and loaned the scanned print file to users.

그 스캐닝한 인쇄 그 파일을 이용자들에게 대출을 해주고 하는 그런 활동을 했었는데

377

00:21:44,100 –> 00:21:46,270

Because of that, publishers

그것 때문에 이제 출판사들에서

378

00:21:46,270 –> 00:21:51,640

are now suing for copyright infringement,

저작권 위반으로 소송을 했고

379

00:21:51,640 –> 00:21:54,720

and in the first trial,

1차 재판에서는 그 사람들이 저작권을 위반한

380

00:21:54,720 –> 00:21:56,860

it is decided that those people have violated copyright,

것으로 결정이 나고 계속해서

381

00:21:56,860 –> 00:22:01,490

and the trial will continue.

이제 재판은 더 진행이 될 예정인데요

382

00:22:01,490 –> 00:22:04,440

The principle of this CDL is this.

이 CDL의 원칙은 이런 겁니다

383

00:22:04,440 –> 00:22:10,480

Just like lending a printed book

도서관에서 인쇄책을 이용자들에게 빌려주는 것과

384

00:22:10,480 –> 00:22:13,010

to users in a library, instead of lending

마찬가지로 인쇄책을 빌려 주는 대신

385

00:22:13,010 –> 00:22:15,680

a printed book, they lend a scanned one.

스캐닝 한 것을 빌려주는데

386

00:22:15,680 –> 00:22:18,340

As long as the scanned book is on loan,

스캐닝 한 책이 대출되어 있는 동안은

387

00:22:18,340 –> 00:22:22,640

it becomes a control in the sense of controlling

도서관에서 가지고 있는 그 인쇄책의 접근을 통제한다는 의미에서

388

00:22:22,640 –> 00:22:24,350

access to the printed book you have in the library.

control이 되는 거죠

389

00:22:24,350 –> 00:22:27,240

So, just like purchasing a book in a library

그래서 도서관에서 책을 한 권을 구입을 하고

390

00:22:27,240 –> 00:22:30,690

and lending one book to a user,

한 권을 이용자에게 대출하는 것과 마찬가지로

391

00:22:30,690 –> 00:22:33,710

scanning is performed

스캐닝을 해서 한 사람의 이용자에게만

392

00:22:33,710 –> 00:22:39,180

and only one user can access the digitized book

한 번 그 시기에 한 사람 이용자만

393

00:22:39,180 –> 00:22:42,300

at that time,

그 디지털화 한 책을 접근을 할 수 있고

394

00:22:42,300 –> 00:22:45,180

and that person After returning it,

그 사람이 반납을 한 이후에는

395

00:22:45,180 –> 00:22:49,230

another person can borrow it again,

다른 사람이 또 대출할 수 있고

396

00:22:49,230 –> 00:22:52,420

and the system is designed

또 그 전자적으로 접근하는 동안은

397

00:22:52,420 –> 00:22:53,440

so that it is impossible to download or print

다운로드 라든가

398

00:22:53,440 –> 00:22:57,250

while electronically accessing it.

인쇄 같은 것은 아예 불가능하도록 시스템에 설계를 하고요

399

00:22:57,250 –> 00:22:59,210

Because of those parts,

그런 부분들 때문에

400

00:22:59,210 –> 00:23:02,930

when the library was closed

이게 지난 2~3일 사이에

401

00:23:02,930 –> 00:23:04,930

due to covid in the last 2-3 days,

covid로 도서관이 문을 닫았을 때

402

00:23:04,930 –> 00:23:07,100

a significant number of users

상당히 많은 이용자들이

403

00:23:07,100 –> 00:23:11,170

received help

도서관에서 이 서비스를 제공하는 경우

404

00:23:11,170 –> 00:23:13,270

when the library provided this service.

이용자들이 도움을 받았었습니다

405

00:23:13,270 –> 00:23:14,470

And if you look at international

그리고 또 뭐 국제 상호대차에서도 본다면

406

00:23:14,470 –> 00:23:17,100

interlibrary loans,

상호대차,

407

00:23:17,100 –> 00:23:20,130

it hasn’t actually been used yet.

아직까지 실제로 이용은 되지는 않았지만은

408

00:23:20,130 –> 00:23:23,510

For example, when a user in Korea wants to borrow

예를 들어 한국에 있는 이용자가 저희 Princeton 대학에 있는 책을 빌려

409

00:23:23,510 –> 00:23:25,130

a book from our Princeton University,

보고 싶을 때 저희들이

410

00:23:25,130 –> 00:23:27,140

he or she can read it much faster

실물을 한국에 보내는 것보다도

411

00:23:27,140 –> 00:23:28,220

if we can share it digitally than we send

이렇게 디지털로

412

00:23:28,220 –> 00:23:32,230

the real thing to Korea, and in many ways

공유를 할 수 있으면은 훨씬 빨리 볼 수 있고

413

00:23:32,230 –> 00:23:36,610

We can protect the copyright better.

여러 가지 면에서 저작권도 저희들이 더 잘 보호를 할 수 있거든요

414

00:23:36,610 –> 00:23:37,670

Of course, there are differences

그런 부분들을

415

00:23:37,670 –> 00:23:41,170

because of the different

416

00:23:41,170 –> 00:23:43,810

views of the library

도서관에서 하는 얘기와

417

00:23:43,810 –> 00:23:46,010

and the publishing industry,

출판업계에서 하는 얘기가 서로 달라서

418

00:23:46,010 –> 00:23:50,000

but there are differences.

물론 보는 관점이 다르기 때문에 그런 차이도 있습니다만은

419

00:23:50,000 –> 00:23:54,230

I do a lot of

그런 부분들에 대해서 지금 사실 흥미롭게 보고 있고

420

00:23:54,230 –> 00:23:55,840

different activities

미국 도서관계에서도 이제 계속 진행되는 재판에 관심을 가지고 여러가지 활동을 많이 하고 있죠

421

00:23:55,840 –> 00:23:58,330

This isn’t copyright infringement after all.

이게 결국 저작권을 해치는 게 아니다

422

00:23:58,330 –> 00:24:01,880

I’m trying to talk about

하는 얘기를 하려고 하고요. 그렇습니다

423

00:24:01,880 –> 00:24:03,390

So, I talked about this for a while

그래서 언젠가 한국에서

424

00:24:03,390 –> 00:24:07,770

while talking a few years ago in Korea one day,

몇 년 전에 얘기를 하면서 잠깐 이 얘기를 했었는데

425

00:24:07,770 –> 00:24:09,670

and it might be difficult because Korea’s copyright

또 한국은 저작권법이 많이

426

00:24:09,670 –> 00:24:14,060

laws are much more restrictive

미국 보다는 훨씬 더 제한적이기 때문에 힘들긴 하겠지만

427

00:24:14,060 –> 00:24:16,260

than the United States,

미국보다,

428

00:24:16,260 –> 00:24:21,330

it’s a field that I’m personally very interested in.

저도 개인적으로 굉장히 관심이 있는 분야긴 합니다.

429

00:24:21,330 –> 00:24:26,370

While going through the covid,

코로나를 겪으면서

430

00:24:26,370 –> 00:24:30,500

Hong: I felt that users really needed this kind of service.

Bae: Yes

홍유진: 이용자들에게 이런 서비스가 굉장히 많이 필요하다고 느끼긴 했거든요 저도.

배승일: 그렇죠

431

00:24:30,500 –> 00:24:33,060

I think it’s a good case

미국 케이스를 통해서

432

00:24:33,060 –> 00:24:35,600

that I have to watch to see

또 어떤 인사이트를 얻을 수 있을지

433

00:24:35,600 –> 00:24:39,150

what kind of insight I can get through the US case.

저도 한번 지켜봐야 되는 좋은 사례인 것 같네요

434

00:24:39,150 –> 00:24:40,200

thank you for telling me

알려 주셔서 감사합니다

435

00:24:40,200 –> 00:24:44,100

Then let me ask you another question

그럼 또 다른 질문 드릴께요

436

00:24:44,100 –> 00:24:47,970

If you have any professional development

선생님 저같이 한국에 있는 다른

437

00:24:47,970 –> 00:24:53,470

tips or advice

사서들에게 IFLA가 처음이거나 참여하고 싶은 사람들한테

438

00:24:53,470 –> 00:24:56,130

you would like to share with other librarians in Korea

공유하고 싶은 전문성 개발 팁이나

439

00:24:56,130 –> 00:25:00,740

who are new to IFLA or want to participate, please share.

조언이 혹시 있으시다면 공유 부탁 드릴게요

440

00:25:00,740 –> 00:25:05,840

Yes, since it is a place where librarians from all over the world gather,

예, 전 세계에 걸친 사서들이 모인 장소다 보니까

441

00:25:05,840 –> 00:25:10,720

what can I actually say?

사실은 뭐랄까

442

00:25:10,720 –> 00:25:11,930

It is not easy to do IFLA activities in Korea

한국이나 특히

443

00:25:11,930 –> 00:25:19,160

or especially in East Asia.

동아시아 쪽에서

444

00:25:19,160 –> 00:25:21,540

One of the things that is not easy is,

IFLA 활동을 하기가 싶지는 않습니다

445

00:25:21,540 –> 00:25:22,970

of course, speaking a foreign language

쉽지 않다는 얘기 중에 하나는 물론

446

00:25:22,970 –> 00:25:25,710

and doing activities in Korean

뭐 한국에서

447

00:25:25,710 –> 00:25:28,790

in English in Korea,

한국말로 하는 활동하는 것도 영어로 해야 되니까

448

00:25:28,790 –> 00:25:31,910

but It’s just not attend the IFLA congress

뭐 외국어를 한다는 것도 있겠지만

449

00:25:31,910 –> 00:25:36,190

held in August,

단순히 그 8월달에

450

00:25:36,190 –> 00:25:39,750

but also have regular meetings once a month

열리는 IFLA 대회에만 참석하는 게 아니라

451

00:25:39,750 –> 00:25:41,480

if it’s like various committees. is being done

각종위원회 같으면 매달 한 번씩 주기적으로

452

00:25:41,480 –> 00:25:45,550

Because the meeting itself is scheduled focused

회의도 이루어지고 하는데

453

00:25:45,550 –> 00:25:48,070

in US and Europe.

그 회의 자체가 아무래도 미국과 유럽 쪽을 중심으로

454

00:25:48,070 –> 00:25:48,910

If it’s like us, when we have a meeting,

시간이 조절이 되니까

455

00:25:48,910 –> 00:25:53,910

we usually have a meeting early in the morning

저희들 같으면 이제 회의를 하면 보통 미국 시간으로

456

00:25:53,910 –> 00:25:57,840

at 8 or 9 o’clock in the US time

아침 일찍 8시나 9시

457

00:25:57,840 –> 00:25:58,790

or early in the afternoon in Europe time.

유럽 시간으로는 오후 시간 이른 시간 대에 이제 회의를 하게되죠

458

00:25:58,790 –> 00:26:01,160

Then, in East Asia, South Korea, China, and Japan,

그러면은 동아시아 한국이나 중국, 일본 쪽에서는

459

00:26:01,160 –> 00:26:04,330

it is sometimes difficult to attend

저녁 늦은 시간이 되니까

460

00:26:04,330 –> 00:26:06,530

because it is late in the evening,

참석하기가 힘든 경우도 있고

461

00:26:06,530 –> 00:26:11,060

so depending on the committee,

그래서 위원회에 따라서는

462

00:26:11,060 –> 00:26:14,410

the time is now adjusted by rotation.

이제 로테이션으로 시간을 조절하기도 합니다

463

00:26:14,410 –> 00:26:18,180

Anyway, I think there are a few more obstacles

어쨌든 그런 부분들이 이제 특히

464

00:26:18,180 –> 00:26:22,120

to making IFLA activities,

외국에서 또 아시아권에서 IFLA 활동을 하게 만드는 데

465

00:26:22,120 –> 00:26:25,550

especially people from abroad and in Asia.

조금 더 장애가 되는 부분도 있는 거 같아요

466

00:26:25,550 –> 00:26:28,350

Even so, these days, if it was like

그렇다고 하더라도

467

00:26:28,350 –> 00:26:32,520

before, people don’t have zoom

요즘은 예전같으면 사람들이 이렇게 zoom이나 이런

468

00:26:32,520 –> 00:26:34,350

or meetings like this.

미팅들이 잘 없으니까

469

00:26:34,350 –> 00:26:37,320

I didn’t think about meeting in person,

직접 만나서 하는 것 밖에는 생각을 안 했었는데

470

00:26:37,320 –> 00:26:40,440

but now I can meet at any time with zoom like this,

지금은 이렇게 zoom으로 언제든지 만날 수가 있고

471

00:26:40,440 –> 00:26:44,290

but there is a part where You have to sacrifice a little bit of time now.

다만 시간을 이제 조금 희생을 해야 된다는 부분이 있으니까요

472

00:26:44,290 –> 00:26:46,840

If you take that into account,

그것만 좀 감안을 하시면은 한국에

473

00:26:46,840 –> 00:26:51,650

anyone in Korea can apply to the IFLA committee.

계신 분들도 누구나 IFLA에 위원회에 지원을 하실 수가 있구요

474

00:26:51,650 –> 00:26:56,200

In addition, IFLA

지원을 하셔서 특이 또 IFLA에서는 요즘 들어서 더욱더

475

00:26:56,200 –> 00:26:58,950

is actively encouraging

다양한 목소리들을 반영하기 위해서

476

00:26:58,950 –> 00:26:59,980

the participation of librarians in Korea

한국이나 기타

477

00:26:59,980 –> 00:27:01,130

and other countries to reflect more

외국에 있는

478

00:27:01,130 –> 00:27:04,320

and more diverse voices these days.

사서들의 참가를 적극적으로 장려를 하고 있습니다

479

00:27:04,320 –> 00:27:07,530

Of course, I become a standing member of the IFLA, and now,

물론 IFLA 상임위원이 되는데

480

00:27:07,530 –> 00:27:10,750

if possible, there are requests to attend the IFLA

이제 가능하면은 매년 IFLA

481

00:27:10,750 –> 00:27:13,570

congress every year,

대회에 참석을 해 달라는 것도 있지만

482

00:27:13,570 –> 00:27:17,210

but even if you don’t,

꼭 그렇게 안 하더라도 온라인으로 참석을 하고

483

00:27:17,210 –> 00:27:19,970

you can attend online and act as a standing member like that.

그렇게 상임위원으로 활동을 할 수도 있으니까

484

00:27:19,970 –> 00:27:20,650

Then, now I can present my opinions

그러다 보면

485

00:27:20,650 –> 00:27:22,000

on various

이제 여러가지

486

00:27:22,000 –> 00:27:26,650

global and international issues,

세계적인 국제적인 이슈에 대해서 자기 의견을 제시를 할 수도 있고

487

00:27:26,650 –> 00:27:28,520

and I can learn.

또 배울 수도 있고요

488

00:27:28,520 –> 00:27:30,140

Especially in the case of work

특히 상호대차 처럼

489

00:27:30,140 –> 00:27:32,410

that affects each other like this,

이렇게 서로 영향을 미치는

490

00:27:32,410 –> 00:27:37,570

it is really

진심으로

491

00:27:37,570 –> 00:27:39,830

important to have various voices

업무 같은 경우는 정말 세계 곳곳에 다양한 목소리를

492

00:27:39,830 –> 00:27:41,270

from around the world.

번영을 하는게 참 중요합니다

493

00:27:41,270 –> 00:27:45,680

Even in our committee,

저희들 committee에만 하더라도

494

00:27:45,680 –> 00:27:48,770

there are two or three

중국 사서들이 두세명이 있거든요 있는데

495

00:27:48,770 –> 00:27:52,210

Chinese librarians.

중국 사서

496

00:27:52,210 –> 00:27:55,250

I don’t know if it’s okay or not,

사실은 회의를 매달 해도 참석을 안 하세요

497

00:27:55,250 –> 00:27:56,810

but there are also problems

안하시는 건지 못하시는건지 모르겠습니다만은

498

00:27:56,810 –> 00:27:58,710

like that

그렇게

499

00:27:58,710 –> 00:28:03,540

because the person

또 회의를 주관하는 측에서도 시간을

500

00:28:03,540 –> 00:28:04,400

in charge of the meeting

그렇게 고려를 안하고

501

00:28:04,400 –> 00:28:07,410

doesn’t really

안 하기 때문에 그런 문제도 있고 한데

502

00:28:07,410 –> 00:28:10,150

consider time that much.

그만큼 시간을 고려

503

00:28:10,150 –> 00:28:13,050

Even just attending is a big deal.

어쨌든 한번 적극적으로 참석을 해서 온라인으로라도 활동을 해보시다

504

00:28:13,050 –> 00:28:15,390

If you do that, especially things

그렇게 하다보면 뭐 특히

505

00:28:15,390 –> 00:28:18,920

like interlibrary loans and data exchange will be much easier.

상호대차나 자료교환 같은 경우는 훨씬 더 쉬워지구요

506

00:28:18,920 –> 00:28:22,490

And now, I would like to tell IFLA that

그리고 또 이제 IFLA에 만일

507

00:28:22,490 –> 00:28:25,120

if you can attend the meeting in person,

직접 회의에 참석을 할 수 있으면은

508

00:28:25,120 –> 00:28:27,550

actually I like going to the session,

사실 저는 세션에 들어가는 것도 좋고 한데

509

00:28:27,550 –> 00:28:30,210

but spend more time meeting people

사람 만나고 네트워크 쌓는데

510

00:28:30,210 –> 00:28:35,260

and building a network.

더 큰 시간을 투자하라고 말씀을 드리고 싶어요

511

00:28:35,260 –> 00:28:37,910

When I first attended a conference

제가 처음 컨퍼런스에 참석을 하고

512

00:28:37,910 –> 00:28:39,120

and did this,

이렇게 했을 때

513

00:28:39,120 –> 00:28:43,830

one of the senior librarians told me this.

선배 사서들 중에 한 사람이 저한테 이런 얘기를 하더라고요

514

00:28:43,830 –> 00:28:46,030

When I go to conferences and meet people

컨퍼런스에 가서 사람을 만나거든

515

00:28:47,300 –> 00:28:48,740

I’m telling you to do

meet up을 하라는거에요

516

00:28:48,740 –> 00:28:51,580

a “meet up”

만나다

517

00:28:51,580 –> 00:28:52,970

Don’t do a “meet down”

meet down을 하지 말고

518

00:28:52,970 –> 00:28:57,650

What do you mean?

이 말이 무슨 말입니까 무슨 말이냐면

519

00:28:57,650 –> 00:29:01,280

to meet such as the president of the director,

그런 컨퍼런스에 가면 이제 도서관에 높은 데 있는 분들 있죠

520

00:29:01,280 –> 00:29:05,770

the vice president, or the president of the association

관장님이라던가 부관장님이라던가 아니면 큰 회의에 협회 회장님도 이런 분들도 다 참석을 하지 않습니까

521

00:29:05,770 –> 00:29:09,620

Also, if you attend those various cultural events,

그리고 뭐 그 각종 문화행사를 참석하다 보면

522

00:29:09,620 –> 00:29:14,480

you can easily talk with them right next to them.

그런 분들 하고도 그냥 옆에서 쉽게 얘기를 할 수가 있어요

523

00:29:14,480 –> 00:29:17,910

Of course, you may be a bit hesitant at first,

물론 처음에는 조금 쭈뼛쭈뼛할 수도 있는데

524

00:29:17,910 –> 00:29:18,880

but when you talk to them,

얘기를 해 보면 다

525

00:29:18,880 –> 00:29:19,860

they are all librarians

똑같은 사서들이고

526

00:29:19,860 –> 00:29:23,680

and you can talk more naturally.

오히려 더 자연스럽게 얘기를 할 수가 있거든요

527

00:29:23,680 –> 00:29:28,230

So actually, I did a lot of “meet ups” while doing that.

그래서 사실은 저도 그렇게 하면서 meetup을 많이 했지요

528

00:29:28,230 –> 00:29:30,250

As a result, while doing IFLA for many years,

그러다 보니까 여러 해 IFLA를 하면서

529

00:29:30,250 –> 00:29:35,130

I met and connected

530

00:29:35,130 –> 00:29:39,110

with the president of the American Library Association

미국도서관협회 회장님도 그렇고

531

00:29:39,110 –> 00:29:43,700

and also the presidents there,

또 회장님들도 거기서 직접 만나서 연결이 되기도 하고

532

00:29:43,700 –> 00:29:46,160

and there are also cases where I met three or four people

또 그 전에 IFLA에서 IFLA회장을 역임하셨던 서너분들

533

00:29:46,160 –> 00:29:49,560

who served as IFLA presidents like that and still keep in touch.

그렇게 만나서 지금도 연락을 하는 경우도 있죠.

534

00:29:49,560 –> 00:29:54,370

When I talk to those people, I hear a lot of other things that I can’t hear

그런 분들 하고 얘기를 하다보면 또 다른 동료들과 얘기했을 때 들을 수 없는

535

00:29:54,370 –> 00:29:56,900

when I talk to other colleagues.

다른 얘기들도 많이 듣습니다

536

00:29:56,900 –> 00:29:59,810

I listen a lot and learn a lot.

많이 듣고 그러면서 배우기도 하고요

537

00:29:59,810 –> 00:30:04,450

Also, in reality, such a network

또 현실적으로 그런 네트워크가

538

00:30:04,450 –> 00:30:05,630

helps me to build various careers,

나중에 직장이라든가 취업이라든가

539

00:30:05,630 –> 00:30:09,960

such as finding a job later.

여러가지 커리어를 쌓아 나가는데도 도움이 되기도 하고요

540

00:30:09,960 –> 00:30:12,100

I know that in Korea, even if it is not IFLA,

한국에서도 굳이 IFLA가 아니더라도

541

00:30:12,100 –> 00:30:15,550

the library association holds an event every year,

도서관 협회에서 매년 행사를 하는 것으로 알고 있는데

542

00:30:15,550 –> 00:30:16,610

but I don’t know.

모르겠습니다

543

00:30:16,610 –> 00:30:19,430

I’ve never attended the Korea Library Conference,

저도 한국도서관 컨퍼런스는 한번도 참석 해보지 않아서

544

00:30:19,430 –> 00:30:21,740

so I don’t know what kind of atmosphere it is,

어떤 분위기인지는 모르겠는데

545

00:30:21,740 –> 00:30:26,150

but I think one of the important things

이렇게 국제적인 단체같은데서 활동을 하면서 중요한 것 중에

546

00:30:26,150 –> 00:30:28,290

while working in such an international organization

하나는 그렇게 사람들을 만나고

547

00:30:28,290 –> 00:30:33,980

is meeting people and growing a network like that.

네트워크를 키워나가는 것 그게 중요한 일이라고 생각합니다

548

00:30:33,980 –> 00:30:37,820

Also, I think I can communicate more comfortably

또 영어라는 언어를 통해서 좀 더 편하게

549

00:30:37,820 –> 00:30:40,520

through the language called English.

대화를 나눌 수 있는 거 같아요

550

00:30:40,520 –> 00:30:47,600

Bae: Yes

Hong: In Korea, there are some restrictions on age and respectful words,

배승일: 그렇죠

홍유진: 한국에서는 나이나 존댓말이나 이런 제한이 살짝 있어서

551

00:30:47,600 –> 00:30:52,740

Hong: so it’s not easy to speak comfortably.

Bae: That’s an important point

홍유진: 편하게 말하기가 쉽지 않거든요

배승일: 중요한 지적입니다

552

00:30:52,740 –> 00:31:01,180

For example, last year I attended a conference in Qatar,

예를 들어서 지난해 제가 카타르에서 열린 컨퍼런스에 참석을 했었는데

553

00:31:01,180 –> 00:31:04,180

where the National Library of Qatar

거기서 이제 카타르 국립도서관

554

00:31:04,180 –> 00:31:06,590

is now a very nice building.

아주 멋진 빌딩이거든요.

555

00:31:06,590 –> 00:31:09,300

I once talked to the librarian

국립도서관을 처음 만드신

556

00:31:09,300 –> 00:31:13,820

from Germany, Claudia Lux,

클라우디아 룩스 라는 독일 출신의 사서 관장님과

557

00:31:13,820 –> 00:31:16,160

who created the first National Library.

국립도서관을 만들었다

558

00:31:16,160 –> 00:31:23,210

As the president of IFLA in the past,

얘기를 한 적이 있습니다

559

00:31:23,210 –> 00:31:25,810

you were probably very active in the 2000s.

예전에 IFLA 회장으로 아마 2000년대에 활동을 아주 활발하게 하셨어요

560

00:31:25,810 –> 00:31:29,260

And then our relationship continues,

저도 IFLA 총회에서 어느해에 만나고

561

00:31:29,260 –> 00:31:30,710

and when we meet, right now

그러고 계속 인연이 이어지는데 만나면은 바로

562

00:31:30,710 –> 00:31:33,040

we both speak English, so we can just talk to each other

이제 둘 다 영어를 하니까

563

00:31:33,040 –> 00:31:36,160

like friends like calling each other ‘Claudia’ ‘Peter’.

그냥 클라우디아 피터 그러고 서로 친구처럼 얘기를 할 수가 있거든요.

564

00:31:36,160 –> 00:31:38,790

Then it’s much easier to get closer.

그러다보면 훨씬 좀 더 쉽게 가까워지죠

565

00:31:38,790 –> 00:31:39,670

And they sit down and have a beer

그리고 앉아서 맥주 한잔 하면서 이런저런 뭐 온갖

566

00:31:39,670 –> 00:31:43,390

and talk about all sorts of

뒷 얘기들 가십성 얘기들도 해주시고

567

00:31:43,390 –> 00:31:49,560

Bae: behind-the-scenes stories and gossip.

Hong: I must study English

배승일: 그렇습니다.

홍유진: 영어 공부를 꼭 해야겠네요

568

00:31:55,390 –> 00:32:02,410

But think like this. Of course, English is stressful for us, but in fact, it’s because the librarians gathered.

근데 이렇게 생각을 하세요. 영어가 물론 우리가 스트레스를 받긴 하는데 사실 사서들이 모인 거니까

569

00:32:02,410 –> 00:32:05,490

What librarians say About the library, after all,

사서들이 하는 얘기 도서관 얘기는 결국

570

00:32:05,490 –> 00:32:06,620

it’s only that it’s in English,

그것이 영어로 나왔다는 것 뿐이지

571

00:32:06,620 –> 00:32:10,390

but it’s a story that can be fully understood,

충분히 이해할 수 있는 이야기 들이고

572

00:32:10,390 –> 00:32:15,370

and it’s not that difficult if you listen with interest.

또 관심가지고 들으면 그렇게 어렵진 않습니다.

573

00:32:15,370 –> 00:32:19,260

Moreover, one of the important things while working at IFLA

더군다나 IFLA에서 활동을 할 때 중요한 것 중에 하나가

574

00:32:19,260 –> 00:32:21,580

is that I actually learned a lot,

저도 사실 많이 배웠는데

575

00:32:21,580 –> 00:32:25,170

especially when I come to IFLA,

ifla에 도착하면

576

00:32:25,170 –> 00:32:30,240

especially in the case of native English-speaking friends.

특히 영어를 원어로 쓰는 친구들 같은 경우에 IFLA에 오면은 저도 이제 그런 얘기를 합니다만 말 좀 천천히 하라고 하거든요 너무 나서지 말고

577

00:32:30,240 –> 00:32:32,120

In particular, the culture is the same,

미국 사람들이나 영국 사람들 특히 문화가 그렇지만은

578

00:32:32,120 –> 00:32:32,690

but when other people are talking,

남이 말할 때

579

00:32:32,690 –> 00:32:35,750

they hang up first and come in,

먼저 끊고 들어오기도 하고

580

00:32:35,750 –> 00:32:37,980

and they talk very aggressively.

아주 공격적으로 얘기를 해요

581

00:32:37,980 –> 00:32:44,120

However, when meeting at IFLA, in fact,

근데 IFLA에서 회의를 하다 보면은 사실은

582

00:32:44,120 –> 00:32:45,330

standing committee members from other countries

다른 나라에서 온 상임위원들도

583

00:32:45,330 –> 00:32:48,690

also have something to say,

분명히 할 말은 있는데

584

00:32:48,690 –> 00:32:50,770

but now they have to do it in English

그걸 이제 자기 나라 언어가 아닌 영어로 해야 되다보니까

585

00:32:50,770 –> 00:32:54,140

instead of their own language. because

이렇게 저렇게 막 생각하고 번역하고 하다 보면 때를 놓치는 경우가 많거든요

586

00:32:54,140 –> 00:32:57,520

So when I host a meeting, especially to my

그래서 제가 회의를 주관할 때는 특히 영어쓰는

587

00:32:57,520 –> 00:33:01,930

English-speaking friends, don’t step out too much,

친구들한테는 너무 나서지 말고

588

00:33:01,930 –> 00:33:02,690

talk slowly, and as the person in charge of the meeting,

천천히 얘기하고 다른 사람 그러고 회의를 주관하는 사람으로서

589

00:33:02,690 –> 00:33:05,060

stop talking to people from

일부로라도 영어권에서 온 사람들 얘기를 끊고

590

00:33:05,060 –> 00:33:09,000

English-speaking countries, ask people from other countries to talk,

다른 나라에서 온 사람들한테 얘기를 물어보고

591

00:33:09,000 –> 00:33:12,920

and let them talk.

얘기를 하게하다

592

00:33:12,920 –> 00:33:16,670

There are good stories out there.

보면은 좋은 이야기들이 나오거든요

593

00:33:16,670 –> 00:33:19,510

In the end, we do the work of the library

결국은 우리가 도서관이라는 일을 하고

594

00:33:19,510 –> 00:33:23,900

and talk about the work of the library in English.

그 도서관의 일에 대한 것을 영어로 얘기하는 것이니까

595

00:33:23,900 –> 00:33:33,500

After all, English is just a tool, so don’t be too burdened and try it once.

영어는 결국 도구일 뿐이니까 너무 부담은 가지지 마시고 한번 부딪혀보면 되죠

596

00:33:33,500 –> 00:33:37,010

I kept asking about the library,

계속 도서관 얘기를 여쭤봤었는데

597

00:33:37,010 –> 00:33:39,960

but if you haven’t worked in a library,

만약에 혹시 도서관에서 일을 안 하셨다면요

598

00:33:39,960 –> 00:33:43,360

you studied history as a librarian

사서로서 역사학도 공부하시고

599

00:33:43,360 –> 00:33:44,970

and have other backgrounds.

다른 배경도 있으시니까

600

00:33:44,970 –> 00:33:49,630

Are there any other jobs you would like to try besides being a librarian?

사서 외에 다른 직업 혹시 해보시고 싶으셨던 것 있으셨을까요

601

00:33:49,630 –> 00:33:56,350

Well, rather than characterizing a job as a job,

글쎄요 직업이라고는

602

00:33:56,350 –> 00:34:02,370

it’s just something I wanted to do.

직업으로 특징을 짓기보다는 그냥 제가 하고 싶었던 일

603

00:34:02,370 –> 00:34:03,550

Even now, I can still do it

지금도 여전히

604

00:34:03,550 –> 00:34:07,280

if I really want to.

제가 정말 하고 싶으면 할 수 있겠죠

605

00:34:07,280 –> 00:34:09,600

But I studied history,

근데 역사를 공부했고

606

00:34:09,600 –> 00:34:11,760

and what I was interested in, of course,

저는 관심이 있었던 게 물론

607

00:34:11,760 –> 00:34:14,860

was thinking about getting a degree

뭐 학위를 받고 교수가 되는 그런것을 생각했지만

608

00:34:14,860 –> 00:34:16,720

and becoming a professor,

609

00:34:16,720 –> 00:34:21,250

but what I was really interested in

제가 실제로 관심이 있었던 것은

610

00:34:21,250 –> 00:34:22,230

was researching history as a scholar

역사를 학자로서 연구를 하고

611

00:34:22,230 –> 00:34:26,270

and how to inform the public

어떻게 발견한 사실들에 대해서 그것들을 대중들에게

612

00:34:26,270 –> 00:34:27,500

about the facts I discovered.

얼마나 알릴 수 있는가 도움이 될 수 있도록 알릴 수 있는가 하는 것이

613

00:34:27,500 –> 00:34:32,870

I was more interested in that part

제가 그 부분에 대해 더 큰 관심이 있었습니다

614

00:34:32,870 –> 00:34:37,180

if I could inform it so that it could help.

615

00:34:37,180 –> 00:34:40,080

So, when I first studied at the State

그래서 처음에 뉴욕주립대에서 공부를 할 때도

616

00:34:40,080 –> 00:34:45,530

University of New York,

뉴욕 대학교 올버니

617

00:34:45,530 –> 00:34:48,030

the university now refers to

그 대학에서 이제 역사학 관련 다큐멘터리라든가

618

00:34:48,030 –> 00:34:49,750

history-related documentaries or recently public history,

최근에 퍼블릭 히스토리라는 표현을 하는데

619

00:34:49,750 –> 00:34:52,350

so there are documentaries or even historical novels.

그래서 다큐멘타리라든가 아니면 심지어 역사소설도 있고요

620

00:34:52,350 –> 00:34:55,070

Perhaps it would be fun to do

그렇게 역사적인 연구의

621

00:34:55,070 –> 00:35:00,350

such an activity that introduces the results of such historical research

결과를 대중들에게 접근할 수 있는 방식으로 소개해주는

622

00:35:00,350 –> 00:35:03,720

in a way that is accessible to the public.

그런활동을 아마 재밌게 할 수 있지 않았을까

623

00:35:03,720 –> 00:35:05,850

That’s why I made a documentary

그래서 다큐멘터리를 만든다든가

624

00:35:05,850 –> 00:35:07,830

about making a documentary, actually,

사실은 그때 과정을 들으면서

625

00:35:07,830 –> 00:35:11,150

while listening to the course, I made a radio documentary.

라디오 다큐멘터리를 하나 만들었거든요

626

00:35:11,150 –> 00:35:13,020

There was an old cafe

뉴욕주 알바니 북부에 있는

627

00:35:13,020 –> 00:35:15,200

in a very old resort called Saratoga,

사라토가(Saratoga)라는 아주

628

00:35:15,200 –> 00:35:20,150

north of Albany, New York.

오래된 휴양지에 역사가 오래된 카페가 하나 있었습니다

629

00:35:20,150 –> 00:35:23,530

In particular, American folk music

특히 미국의 포크뮤직

630

00:35:23,530 –> 00:35:26,190

famous singers all sang there

유명한 가수들이 무명 시절에

631

00:35:26,190 –> 00:35:29,550

when they were unknown,

그들은 알려지지 않았다

632

00:35:29,550 –> 00:35:34,240

but there was a cafe,

다 거기서 노래를 하고 그랬던 그런데 카페가 있었는데

633

00:35:34,240 –> 00:35:37,760

and I made a 20-minute documentary about the cafe.

그 카페에 관한 다큐멘터리를 한 20분 짜리를 만들었었어요

634

00:35:37,760 –> 00:35:42,000

After making it, I thought about whether I would have done something like that

그런 작업들이 참 재밌고 뿌듯하더라고요

635

00:35:42,000 –> 00:35:45,940

if I hadn’t become a librarian.

만들고 나니까 그래서 아마 사서가 안되었더라면

636

00:35:45,940 –> 00:35:47,060

There are still many things I want to do.

그런 거를 해보지 않았을까 하는 생각도 해보고

637

00:35:47,060 –> 00:35:49,380

There are many things I want to do,

그렇습니다. 지금도 해보고 싶은 일을 많죠. 해보고 싶은 일은 많고

638

00:35:49,380 –> 00:35:54,980

and when I retire later, my bucket list is full of things I need to do now.

나중에 은퇴하면 지금 해야 될 일이 버켓 리스트에 가득 쌓여있습니다

639

00:35:54,980 –> 00:36:01,320

Hong: How long until retirement?

Bae: Rather than how much is left,

홍유진: 은퇴까지 얼마나 남으셨어요 선생님?

배승일: 얼마가 남았다기 보다는

640

00:36:01,320 –> 00:36:04,250

it’s about how much I can do.

얼마나 제가 할 수 있느냐 하는 거겠죠

641

00:36:04,250 –> 00:36:08,260

Now that the position has been

이제 자리가 종신임기를 받았기 때문에

642

00:36:08,260 –> 00:36:13,400

given a tenure,

643

00:36:13,400 –> 00:36:15,260

I can work as long as I want as long as I can.

제가 원하면 일을 할 수 있는한은 언제까지나 할 수 있습니다

644

00:36:15,260 –> 00:36:17,420

You don’t have to retire at the age of 60 or 65

한국처럼 60세 혹은 65세 은퇴를 해야되는 게 아니고

645

00:36:17,420 –> 00:36:19,490

like in Korea, and like most university

미국의 대부분 대학도서관들도 그렇지만

646

00:36:19,490 –> 00:36:24,370

libraries in the US, as long as you want,

자기가 원하는 한은 죽을 때까지 일을 할 수가 있거든요

647

00:36:24,370 –> 00:36:27,400

until you die. I can work

648

00:36:27,400 –> 00:36:29,840

We even have 75-78-year-old librarians in our library,

심지어 저희 도서관에는 75세 78세 된 사서분도 있습니다

649

00:36:29,840 –> 00:36:32,170

because there are librarians

사서가 있기 때문에

650

00:36:32,170 –> 00:36:36,030

who have been working for 30 or 50 years.

30년 50년씩 일한 사서들이 있으니까요

651

00:36:36,030 –> 00:36:40,230

But now that I’m too old and retire,

근데 이제 너무 나이가 들어서 은퇴를 하면 이런 활동들을 못할테니까

652

00:36:40,230 –> 00:36:45,740

I won’t be able to do these activities, so I have to think about it first.

먼저 고민을 해 봐야죠

653

00:36:45,740 –> 00:36:49,260

I don’t know

모르겠습니다

654

00:36:49,260 –> 00:36:52,160

I’m looking forward to more what kind of work you’re

제가 더 기대가 되네요. 선생님께서 어떤 업무를 하시게 되실지 사서가 아니시면

655

00:36:52,160 –> 00:36:55,530

going to do,

하려고

656

00:36:55,530 –> 00:36:58,560

unless I’m a librarian.

근데 뭔가 사서가 아니시라도

657

00:36:58,560 –> 00:37:03,300

Hong: Don’t you like that kind of thing you want to tell me

Bae: I guess so

홍유진: 다른 사람들한테 여러 정보를 주는 그런 업무를 왠지 하실것 같아요. 알려 주고 싶어 하시는 그런 것을 좋아하시지 않나

배승일: 아마 그럴 것 같아요

658

00:37:03,300 –> 00:37:06,960

I think there may be some very professional and philosophical things,

제 생각에도 아주 전문적이고 철학적인 것도 있겠지만

659

00:37:06,960 –> 00:37:11,360

but if you give some information in a way

사람들이 쉽게 이해할 수 있는 방식으로

660

00:37:11,360 –> 00:37:14,640

that people can easily understand,

어떤 정보를 알려주면

661

00:37:14,640 –> 00:37:18,630

you can probably do those things.

아마 그런 일들은 충분히 할 수 있겠죠

662

00:37:18,630 –> 00:37:24,400

Okay, so now it’s already the last question.

네, 그러면 이제 벌써 마지막 질문이 되었는데요

663

00:37:24,400 –> 00:37:28,890

I wonder if you have anything to share about the project,

선생님께서 지금 혹시 작업 중인 프로젝트나

664

00:37:28,890 –> 00:37:34,980

presentation, or program you’re working on, about the event

프레젠테이션 또는 프로그램 중에서 집중할 예정인 이벤트나

665

00:37:34,980 –> 00:37:40,700

or audience you plan to focus on.

발표 대상에 대한 말씀에 대해서 공유해주실 것이 있으신지 궁금합니다.

666

00:37:40,700 –> 00:37:45,230

Yes, I talked about it in a question earlier,

예, 아까 잠시 앞에 질문에서 얘기를 했었는데

667

00:37:45,230 –> 00:37:51,400

but at a conference held at the IFLA headquarters a few days ago,

며칠 전에 IFLA 본부에서 열린 컨퍼런스에서

668

00:37:51,400 –> 00:37:54,210

what I talked about was resource sharing in time of conflicts and crisis

제가 얘기를 했던 게 리소스 쉐어링 complete of crisis라고 해서

669

00:37:54,210 –> 00:37:58,750

How can library interlibrary loans or library resource

분쟁과 위기에 도서관의 상호대차 업무 혹은 도서관의 자료공유 일이

670

00:37:58,750 –> 00:38:07,360

sharing work help to solve such situations in conflicts and crises

어떻게 그런 상황을 해결하는데 도움이 될 것인가

671

00:38:07,360 –> 00:38:10,240

called complete of crisis?

“위기의 완전체”라고 불림

672

00:38:10,240 –> 00:38:14,590

So, in fact, I made such a proposal

그래서 제가 사실은 그 발표를 하면서 그런 제안을 했었는데

673

00:38:14,590 –> 00:38:17,990

while making the announcement,

발표를 하면서

674

00:38:17,990 –> 00:38:19,920

but IFLA officially supported it

IFLA에서 공식적으로 지원을 하고

675

00:38:19,920 –> 00:38:23,930

and cooperated with such organizations as UNESCO.

또 유네스코라든가

676

00:38:23,930 –> 00:38:26,730

Doesn’t the UN dispatch

이런 기관과 협력을 해서 그런 게 있죠

677

00:38:26,730 –> 00:38:30,260

an emergency relief team to any conflict

UN에서 어떤 분쟁지역이나

678

00:38:30,260 –> 00:38:31,420

area or crisis area? As such,

위기 지역의 긴급 구호단을 파견하지 않습니까? 그런 것처럼

679

00:38:31,420 –> 00:38:36,170

the need for information certainly exists in such areas.

그런 지역에도 분명 정보에 대한 필요성은 존재를 하고요

680

00:38:36,170 –> 00:38:38,340

I had a conversation with the headquarters staff at IFLA

그런 정보를 긴급정보지원팀 이런 것을 한번 꾸려보면 어떻겠느냐 하는

681

00:38:38,340 –> 00:38:41,780

about what it would be like to organize such information

그런 얘기를 IFLA에서 마침 본부 직원들하고

682

00:38:41,780 –> 00:38:45,860

with the emergency information support team,

비상정보팀과 함께

683

00:38:45,860 –> 00:38:48,960

and I said that when I made the announcement.

발표할 때 그런 얘기를 했었습니다

684

00:38:48,960 –> 00:38:52,160

In fact, I plan to develop these parts more systematically

사실 이부분들을 앞으로 조금 더 한번 체계적으로 발전을 시켜 나가볼 생각인데요

685

00:38:52,160 –> 00:38:55,780

in the future.

미래에

686

00:38:55,780 –> 00:38:58,720

Also, during covid in 2020,

또 지난 2020년 코비드 때도

687

00:38:58,720 –> 00:39:00,480

I don’t know if you remember covid during that period,

그렇지만은 covid 그 기간에 기억하시는지 모르겠습니다만은

688

00:39:00,480 –> 00:39:05,950

but there was a big explosion in Beirut,

레바논의 수도 베이루트에서 큰 폭발사고가 있었죠

689

00:39:05,950 –> 00:39:09,570

the capital of Lebanon.

레바논의 수도

690

00:39:09,570 –> 00:39:15,580

So, hundreds of houses nearby were destroyed, and I did this.

그래서 근처에 수백채 집들이 부서지고 이렇게 했었는데

691

00:39:15,580 –> 00:39:18,880

Then I got a request from a fellow librarian

그때 이제 레바논에

692

00:39:18,880 –> 00:39:21,870

at the American University of Beirut,

거기에 있는 American University of Beirut에 있는

693

00:39:21,870 –> 00:39:26,910

which is now in Lebanon.

동료 사서로부터 제가 신청을 하나 받았었어요

694

00:39:26,910 –> 00:39:29,850

Because of the explosion accident,

폭발 사고 때문에 집들이 이제 흔들리고

695

00:39:29,850 –> 00:39:32,320

the houses are now shaking

집에 이제 구조가

696

00:39:32,320 –> 00:39:35,030

and the structure of the house

제대로 서있기 힘든 상태에서

697

00:39:35,030 –> 00:39:36,550

is now difficult

지금은 어렵다

698

00:39:36,550 –> 00:39:40,250

to stand properly,

그것을 빨리 진단을 하고

699

00:39:40,250 –> 00:39:42,680

so it is necessary to quickly diagnose it

집을 허물던지

700

00:39:42,680 –> 00:39:44,990

and tear down the house or repair it again.

다시 고치던지 하는 그런 조치가 필요한데

701

00:39:44,990 –> 00:39:50,040

However, in order to do that work, we need data

마침 그 대학에 있는 건축공학과 교수님들이 그 작업을 지원을 했다

702

00:39:50,040 –> 00:39:52,200

such as the architectural diagnosis standard

703

00:39:52,200 –> 00:39:55,090

made in the United States,

근데 그 작업을 하기 위해서 미국에서 만든 건축 진단 스탠다드 같은 자료가 필요한데

704

00:39:55,090 –> 00:39:56,910

and the economic situation of Lebanon at the time

그 당시 레바논의 경제적 상황도 그렇고 이런 것들이 그 자료를

705

00:39:56,910 –> 00:39:59,330

was too difficult to obtain.

입수하기에는 너무 힘들다는거였죠

706

00:39:59,330 –> 00:40:00,450

And again, the problem was

그리고 또 문제가

707

00:40:00,450 –> 00:40:01,140

that libraries in the US were now closed

이제 미국에서도 도서관들이 코비드 때문에 문을 닫고 있는 상황이였고

708

00:40:01,140 –> 00:40:04,990

due to Covid,

코로나로 인해

709

00:40:04,990 –> 00:40:08,100

so I was able to get the standard in 2-3 days

그래서 제가 이제 그 친구의 신청을 받고 제가 알고 있는 네트워크들을 연결을 해서

710

00:40:08,100 –> 00:40:11,170

by connecting the networks

2-3일만에 그 스탠다드를 구해서 보내 줄 수가 있었어요

711

00:40:11,170 –> 00:40:13,150

I knew after receiving the

나는 이것을 받고 안다

712

00:40:13,150 –> 00:40:15,970

friend’s request.

친구의 부탁

713

00:40:15,970 –> 00:40:18,240

So, in fact, I

사실은

714

00:40:18,240 –> 00:40:24,490

don’t know what significance we have in the library,

그래서 그런 것처럼 사실은 도서관에서

715

00:40:24,490 –> 00:40:26,710

depending on how we think of document

우리가 뭐 문서배달 상호대차 이런 것들이 생각하기에 따라서

716

00:40:26,710 –> 00:40:28,470

delivery and interlibrary loans,

무슨 큰 의미가 있나 그러는지 모르겠지만

717

00:40:28,470 –> 00:40:29,750

but depending on the situation,

상황에 따라서는 정말

718

00:40:29,750 –> 00:40:33,740

it’s what we do that can play a really decisive role.

결정적인 역할을 할 수 있는 게 우리가 하는 일이거든요

719

00:40:33,740 –> 00:40:36,820

Also, the UN has recently

그리고 또 UN에서 최근에 지속 가능한 발전에 관한 얘기들을 하고 있는데

720

00:40:36,820 –> 00:40:39,100

been talking about sustainable development,

지속가능한 발전을 말하다

721

00:40:39,100 –> 00:40:43,440

and one of them in particular

그중에 특히 한 가지가 정보에 대한 접근권

722

00:40:43,440 –> 00:40:46,590

is the right to access to information,

인포메이션 엑세스는 어떤

723

00:40:46,590 –> 00:40:50,040

and access to information

지속 가능한 발전의 아주 필수적인 요소라고

724

00:40:50,040 –> 00:40:52,410

is a very essential

UN에서 인정을 한 것이 있으니까

725

00:40:52,410 –> 00:40:54,250

element of any sustainable development,

726

00:40:54,250 –> 00:40:59,730

so the UN has recognized it.

유엔은 이를 인정했다

727

00:40:59,730 –> 00:41:02,130

Let’s go beyond simply lending books

그런 분위기들를 이용해서 한번 도서관에서도 단순히 사람들이 생각하는

728

00:41:02,130 –> 00:41:07,580

that people think of,

책 빌려 주는 곳을 넘어서

729

00:41:07,580 –> 00:41:09,310

and play a role that can provide information

필요한 곳과 필요한 상황에 정보를 제공해 줄 수 있는 어떤 그런

730

00:41:09,310 –> 00:41:11,810

where and when it is needed, once internationally.

역할을 한번 국제적으로 한번 해보자 뭐 그런 얘기들을 하고 있습니다

731

00:41:11,810 –> 00:41:15,530

So I don’t know how it developed,

그래서 그게 어떤 식으로 발전이 됐는지는 모르겠는데

732

00:41:15,530 –> 00:41:20,630

but it’s called RSCVD RSCVD, which I just started.

제가 이제 시작했던 RSCVD RSCVD이라고 하고

733

00:41:20,630 –> 00:41:21,530

Originally, the name was Resource

원래 그 이름이

734

00:41:21,530 –> 00:41:31,000

Sharing in the Times of COVID-19,

Resource Sharing in the Times of COVID-19인데

735

00:41:31,000 –> 00:41:37,170

but depending on what you read, RSCVD reads as received.

RSCVD이라는게 읽기에 따라서는 received 받았다라는 그런 말로도 읽히거든요

736

00:41:37,170 –> 00:41:42,820

So, we thought that this RSCVD

그래서 저희는 이 RSCVD 이니셔티브가

737

00:41:42,820 –> 00:41:45,310

initiative might play a role in some kind of emergency

아마 이런 식의 어떤 긴급 지원 국제 긴급

738

00:41:45,310 –> 00:41:48,170

support international emergency support information center,

지원 정보센터에 어떤 그런 역할을 해줄수도 있지 않을까 해서

739

00:41:48,170 –> 00:41:50,670

so we have thoughts of developing it, and we have several ideas.

그것도 발전을 시켜볼 생각도 있고 여러가지 아이디어들은 있습니다

740

00:41:50,670 –> 00:41:55,510

Bae: We’ll see what happens.

Hong: It sounds like a very interesting project.

배승일: 어떻게 될지는 두고 봐야죠.

홍유진: 굉장히 흥미로운 프로젝트인 것 같습니다

741

00:41:55,510 –> 00:41:57,470

What’s going on

진행되는 상황

742

00:41:57,470 –> 00:41:59,870

It would be great if you could share it

저희 한국 사서들도 많이 알 수 있도록

743

00:41:59,870 –> 00:42:02,180

so that our Korean librarians can also know a lot about it.

공유 해주시면 너무 좋을 거 같아요

744

00:42:02,180 –> 00:42:03,910

Yes, and I plan to keep doing it

예, 그리고 한국사서협회

745

00:42:03,910 –> 00:42:06,180

so that more people from the the Korea Library Association

선생님들도 좀 많이 참석할 수 있도록 제가 자꾸 할 생각입니다

746

00:42:06,180 –> 00:42:11,630

can attend.

747

00:42:11,630 –> 00:42:13,480

Thank you very much for

감사합니다

748

00:42:13,480 –> 00:42:15,280

taking your precious time

선생님 귀한 시간 내주셔서 좋은 말씀 해주셔서 정말 감사드립니다

749

00:42:15,280 –> 00:42:18,780

and for your kind words. Thank you.

감사합니다

750

00:42:18,780 –> 00:42:21,680

Especially, it’s really nice

특히 또 제가 제가 좋아하는 도서관에 관한

751

00:42:21,680 –> 00:42:26,050

to be able to talk about

이야기를 한국말로 할 수 있어서 정말 좋습니다

752

00:42:26,050 –> 00:42:27,690

my favorite library

내가 가장 좋아하는 도서관

753

00:42:27,690 –> 00:42:33,640

in Korean. Thank you. thank you

저도 한국말로 이렇게 할 수 있어서 더 의미 있었던 것 같습니다. 감사합니다

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 3: Carmen Lei, CPDWL SC Member (in 廣東話/Cantonese-Chinese)

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See here for the podcast (this conversation is in Cantonese-Chinese. For translation, please see below)

Our host for this episode is Ray Pun (CPDWL). Our guest is Carmen Lei, CPDWL Standing Committee Member.

This episode’s guest is Carmen Lei. Carmen Lei is the Librarian at Macao Institute for Tourism Studies, standing committee member of IFLA CPDWL 2019-2023, council member of Macao Library and Information Management Association and

Chairperson of the Macao Academic Library Alliance 2023-2024. Carmen Lei 現任為澳門旅遊學院圖書館館長，2019-2023 IFLA 繼續職業發展與職場學習委員會委員，澳門圖書館暨資訊管理協會理事及2023-2024澳門高校圖書館聯盟主席

Transcript (Traditional Chinese)

Ray : [00:00:01.62]大家好，我是Ray Pun ，歡迎大家收聽IFLA CPDWL 的podcast 項目，我們平日都會邀請圖書館界的同事去分享他們的工作，希望大家喜歡今天這一節!今天嘉賓是澳門的Carmen Lei!

Carmen: [00:00:30.39] [00:00:30.00]你好，大家好。

Ray : [00:00:32.49] 歡迎你!今天我們會嘗試以廣東話、英語來做這個節目，Carmen，你有些活動可跟大家聊聊嗎?你可否分享你現在身於什麼地方？你的工作等等。

Carmen: [00:00:59.70] 好 [00:01:00.00]大家好，首先我很感謝Ray 今天的邀請！在這個平台跟大家分享我的工作！我是Carmen ！我的工作地點是在澳門。

Ray : [00:01:13.36] 你是做那一類型的圖書館？

Carmen: [00:01:16.06] 我主要在一所大專院校的圖書館工作，學院名稱為「澳門旅遊學院」，這所學院主要提供本科及研究生有關旅遊及酒店業相關的課程 [00:01:30.00]而我是這所圖書館的館長。

Ray : [00:01:38.24]如果你需要用一個字形容你自己的性格，你認為可以用什麼詞呢?

Carmen: [00:01:47.18]用一個去形容都比較難! 因為我都很貪心呢！如果真的要用一個詞來形容自己？我認為是承擔力，我認為做每一件事都一定要有責任心，[00:02:00.00]要勇於承擔，這個態度是非常緊要。但我會希望把這個問題改變為:自己在別人心目中是一個怎樣的人呢？例如別人想起Carmen，他們對我的評價是怎樣? 而我希望自己在職場上，或在不同崗位上，都是一個被人信賴的人! 我希望自己可以成為一個 [00:02:30.00]有我在。別人就會覺得安心的一個人啦！

Ray : [00:02:32.96] 講得非常好。請問你怎樣開始在圖書館工作呢? 你可否分享你的故事呢?

Carmen: [00:02:43.16] 可以。我想起在自己修讀本科課程的時候，都很希望累積 [00:03:00.00]一些工作經驗，而剛好學院有一個為期十個月的[管理實習生]項目，這個項目主要在課堂後到圖書館工作，在這個機緣巧合，我便開始接觸圖書館，亦非常喜歡這個工作嘅氛圍，自己開始慢慢在圖書館這方面繼續進修增值自己 [00:03:30.00]不驚不覺，原來我已經在這個行業呢大約工作了19年的時間！

Ray : [00:03:36.45] 19年呀。

Carmen: [00:03:38.28] 是的!好像很久了。(笑)

Ray : [00:03:40.41] 不是不是!不過你工作了這麼多年，應該都有很多經驗跟大家分享。

Carmen: [00:03:47.07] 都要不斷學習吧！因為我們這個行業都有很多不同的學習機會！直至現在還是非常喜歡我的工作呢!

Ray : [00:03:59.67] 對 [00:04:00.00]我想問你對[世界圖書館學]有什麼感受呢？

Carmen: [00:04:07.23]我認為這個話題跟我初接觸圖書館的時代有很大的轉變！特別在服務創新方面！初入職圖書館工作時我們比較著重資源管理！怎樣提供一站式的服務給讀者，盡量去滿足讀者的需求， [00:04:30.00]現在這個[世界圖書館學]已經轉變了很多，例如我們開始著重SDG，探討持續的發展！圖書館可以怎樣肩負起這個責任！也會探討有關區域性的合作，知識怎樣共建共享等！

Ray : [00:04:52.32] 在澳門地區，[世界圖書館學] 是你們探討的話題嗎?

Carmen: [00:04:55.71] 我們都會探討這方面的話題。大家 [00:05:00.00] 都會分享對[世界圖書館學]的看法！特別在covid 下，過往3年對世界各地不同類型的圖書館都有很大的轉變，我們會探討疫情後的新常態，無論大家在什麼類型的圖書館工作，目的都希望辦到停課不停學，怎樣把圖書館的資源 [00:05:30.00]可以讓讀者隨時隨地使用！

Ray : [00:05:34.65]你可否分享一下你從什麼時候開始了解IFLA?又或者參加有關IFLA 的活動?

Carmen: [00:05:45.24]大家都知道IFLA有很久的歷史，相信在圖書館界大家對IFLA 都不會陌生!但我自己參加IFLA是由WLIC 開始 [00:06:00.00]在2018年，澳門地區的高校圖書館聯盟得到了政府的資助，有機會組織一班圖書館界同仁到馬來西亞吉隆坡參加IFLA WLIC，透過這個機會，我們認識到世界各地圖書館的專家們，自己覺得是一個很好的平台去學習，透過這個平台，讓世界各地的圖書館從業員了解我們本地圖書館的發展 [00:06:30.00]到2019年，我很榮幸當選了IFLA CPDWL，中文名為[繼續職業發展與職場學習委員會]的成員，讓我可以更直接參與在IFLA 專業組別的工作！

Ray : [00:06:48.28]吉隆坡是你第一次參與的IFLA 活動?

Carmen: [00:06:51.10] 對呀！吉隆坡是我第一次參與IFLA 的活動，2019年在希臘，就 [00:07:00.00]是第二次參會！之後因為疫情原因，會議為線上進行，少了機會參與實體會議。這是有關我跟IFLA的少少聯繫吧！

Ray : [00:07:14.65] 你有沒有一個參與IFLA WLIC很難忘的回憶可以跟我們分享下呢?

Carmen: [00:07:24.78] 好的 [00:07:30.00]我參加了兩屆的WLIC，2018年於吉隆坡及2019年在希臘雅典都令我很難忘!今日主要想分享我在CPDWL 的工作，我們的組別有很多不同的項目，自己參與了一項名為’coaching initiative’的項目，我們每個人在工作的職業生涯都會面對很多不同的挑戰，而透過coaching 這個過程，我們可以得到一些專業 [00:08:00.00]人員，或者在職場上從事了很久的圖書館從業員一些啟發，從而令自己建立信心去跨越職場上遇到的問題！通過一對一的COACHING可以啟發自身思考，幫助這位員工發揮他的潛能，我由2019年起開始參與其中，疫情期間透過線上進行， [00:08:30.00]至今已經參與數年！今年2023年於荷蘭鹿特丹將會繼續推行這個項目，現在委員會已經開始籌備工作！說起最難忘呢？除了參與會議，有幸跟世界各地不同的圖書館專家一起分享及學習，當然包括 [00:09:00.00]認識你!因為我們都在2019的WLIC 認識呢!

Ray : [00:09:04.63] 對呀！我在不同場合及會議都看到你呢!

Carmen: [00:09:12.28] 當中包括很多SESSIONS及會議都有很多機會認識世界的圖書館從業員！我覺得非常難忘的。

Ray : [00:09:25.63] 真是很好機會！下一個問題是[00:09:30.00]你對這個職業最感興趣是什麼?

Carmen: [00:09:35.86]在這個工作環境可以發現及認識很多新事物，幫助讀者同時也可以擴展自己的知識及技能，在這個專業領域每日都遇到 [00:10:00.00]新挑戰，例如怎樣去滿足我們的讀者，我相信很多圖書館現在都面臨一個經費的限制，我們可以怎樣在有限的資源下，提供最優質的服務給讀者，都是我們要思考的地方。例如在圖書館工作，自己 [00:10:30.00]需要變得敏銳，去應變社會的變化，所以這是一個充滿挑戰的行業。

Ray : [00:10:44.01] 如果對IFLA 感興趣，你可否提供一些建議呢?

Carmen: [00:10:52.77] 我認為裝備好自己，對業界的發展要有獨覺性， [00:11:00.00]例如參與WLIC是一個很好的機會去初次了解IFLA 的活動!

他們每一年都會招募志願者，我認為是很好的途徑去接觸IFLA [00:11:30.00]因為直接參與活動會有更多的體會！最緊要是首先踏出第一步，要以行動去感受，從行動去認識IFLA！

Ray : [00:11:51.10] 很同意，我認為都要慢慢開始，因為WLIC 有很多認識新朋友的機會， [00:12:00.00] 慢慢去擴闊這個網絡。

Carmen: [00:12:08.50] 對呀！其實IFLA有很多不同的委員會，可透個自己感興趣的委員會，參與他們線上研討會， [00:12:30.00]這個都是一個接觸IFLA 的途徑！

Ray : [00:12:34.54]如果你不在圖書館工作？你認為你會做什麼樣的工作呢?

Carmen: [00:12:47.26] 真是一個很難答的問題！因為我在這個範疇已經很久了!如果真的需要從事令一個工作，自己比較喜歡與青少年及小朋友工作的一個人呢 [00:13:00.00] 我是一個有耐性的人，可能從事教育工作吧! 因為教育是互相影響，互相學習，因為教導人的同時自己的學習更大，因為未來的領袖太重要了。[00:13:30.00]我很希望我的工作上對社會有貢獻，如果我不從事圖書館行業，我應該從事與’青少年’相關的工作。

Ray : [00:13:49.49] 原來這樣!最後一個問題!

Carmen: [00:13:54.99]好。

Ray : [00:13:56.69] 你現在有什麼項目跟進中? [00:14:00.00]可否分享一下?

Carmen: [00:14:04.57] 好！我嘗試用三點來分享我現在的工作! 我工作的地點是澳門旅遊學院，因應學院成為了[土生葡人美食烹飪技藝]-國家級非物質文化遺產的保護單位這個重任， [00:14:30.00]我們要保存[土生菜]，因此與其他單位合作，推出土生菜資料庫，而圖書館也要設置土生菜專題室呢！希望構建、收錄與土生菜相關資料、食譜、藏書等等，將這個重要的 [00:15:00.00]資源保存下來，傳承到下一代，讓他們了解這個深厚的文化底蘊，構建這個特藏是我工作其一的任務。

澳門是一個很少的地方，所以合作很重要!由2014起澳門地區便成立了高校圖書館聯盟，把本澳的高等院校圖書館聯合起來 [00:15:30.00]由 2023年起，本人慶幸得到大家的支持而成為新任的聯盟主席，我的任期為2年，希望透過聯盟，為澳門高校教職員及學生提供豐富的學習資源。每年4月是澳門[00:16:00.00]的圖書館周，無論大中小學或高等院校圖書館都忙著舉辦不同活動去支持這個盛事。為了融入國家的發展，早在2017年組織了粵港澳大灣區高校圖書館聯盟，主要目的是促進我們三地圖書館交流，希望可以資源共建共享 [00:16:30.00]我們4月19至21號將會舉辦為期三日的活動，名為[2023粵港澳高校圖書館聯盟年會暨館長論壇]，過往因為疫情原因，很多會議都改為線上進行，今次為實體會議，我非常期待，可以跟粵港澳三地圖書館代表[00:17:00.00]交流，這幾個項目讓我感受到將會有一個很充實的2023年。

Ray : [00:17:10.65] 嘩，真的要加油Carmen！

Carmen: [00:17:11.49] 對，我會努力呢！

Ray : [00:17:16.35] 我今天真的很多謝你的分享！ [00:17:30.00]真的很有意思，希望聽眾有什麼問題都可以與我們CPDWL 聯絡。

Carmen: [00:17:40.92] 可以呀！我很多謝你的邀請! 讓我有機會跟大家分享我的工作! 如有興趣了解上述分享的項目，歡迎聽眾與我們聯絡。

Ray : [00:17:56.91] 好呀！我們未來時間會令一集的專訪 [00:18:00.00]希望大家再收聽我們的分享吧!! 下次再見!! Bye！

Carmen: [00:18:08.55] Bye。

Transcript (Simplified Chinese)

Ray : [00:00:01.62]大家好，我是Ray Pun ，欢迎大家收听IFLA CPDWL 的podcast 项目，我们平日都会邀请图书馆界的同事去分享他们的工作，希望大家喜欢今天这一节!今天嘉宾是澳门的Carmen Lei!

Carmen: [00:00:30.39] [00:00:30.00]你好，大家好。

Ray : [00:00:32.49] 欢迎你!今天我们会尝试以广东话、英语来做这个节目，Carmen，你有些活动可跟大家聊聊吗?你可否分享你现在身于什么地方？你的工作等等。

Carmen: [00:00:59.70] 好 [00:01:00.00]大家好，首先我很感谢Ray 今天的邀请！在这个平台跟大家分享我的工作！我是Carmen ！我的工作地点是在澳门。

Ray : [00:01:13.36] 你是做那一类型的图书馆？

Carmen: [00:01:16.06] 我主要在一所大专院校的图书馆工作，学院名称为「澳门旅游学院」，这所学院主要提供本科及研究生有关旅游及酒店业相关的课程 [00:01:30.00]而我是这所图书馆的馆长。

Ray : [00:01:38.24]如果你需要用一个字形容你自己的性格，你认为可以用什么词呢?

Carmen: [00:01:47.18]用一个去形容都比较难! 因为我都很贪心呢！如果真的要用一个词来形容自己？我认为是承担力，我认为做每一件事都一定要有责任心，[00:02:00.00]要勇于承担，这个态度是非常紧要。但我会希望把这个问题改变为:自己在别人心目中是一个怎样的人呢？例如别人想起Carmen，他们对我的评价是怎样? 而我希望自己在职场上，或在不同岗位上，都是一个被人信赖的人! 我希望自己可以成为一个 [00:02:30.00]有我在。别人就会觉得安心的一个人啦！

Ray : [00:02:32.96] 讲得非常好。请问你怎样开始在图书馆工作呢? 你可否分享你的故事呢?

Carmen: [00:02:43.16] 可以。我想起在自己修读本科课程的时候，都很希望累积 [00:03:00.00]一些工作经验，而刚好学院有一个为期十个月的[管理实习生]项目，这个项目主要在课堂后到图书馆工作，在这个机缘巧合，我便开始接触图书馆，亦非常喜欢这个工作嘅氛围，自己开始慢慢在图书馆这方面继续进修增值自己 [00:03:30.00]不惊不觉，原来我已经在这个行业呢大约工作了19年的时间！

Ray : [00:03:36.45] 19年呀。

Carmen: [00:03:38.28] 是的!好像很久了。(笑)

Ray : [00:03:40.41] 不是不是!不过你工作了这么多年，应该都有很多经验跟大家分享。

Carmen: [00:03:47.07] 都要不断学习吧！因为我们这个行业都有很多不同的学习机会！直至现在还是非常喜欢我的工作呢!

Ray : [00:03:59.67] 对 [00:04:00.00]我想问你对[世界图书馆学]有什么感受呢？

Carmen: [00:04:07.23]我认为这个话题跟我初接触图书馆的时代有很大的转变！特别在服务创新方面！初入职图书馆工作时我们比较着重资源管理！怎样提供一站式的服务给读者，尽量去满足读者的需求， [00:04:30.00]现在这个[世界图书馆学]已经转变了很多，例如我们开始着重SDG，探讨持续的发展！图书馆可以怎样肩负起这个责任！也会探讨有关区域性的合作，知识怎样共建共享等！

Ray : [00:04:52.32] 在澳门地区，[世界图书馆学] 是你们探讨的话题吗?

Carmen: [00:04:55.71] 我们都会探讨这方面的话题。大家 [00:05:00.00] 都会分享对[世界图书馆学]的看法！特别在covid 下，过往3年对世界各地不同类型的图书馆都有很大的转变，我们会探讨疫情后的新常态，无论大家在什么类型的图书馆工作，目的都希望办到停课不停学，怎样把图书馆的资源 [00:05:30.00]可以让读者随时随地使用！

Ray : [00:05:34.65]你可否分享一下你从什么时候开始了解IFLA?又或者参加有关IFLA 的活动?

Carmen: [00:05:45.24]大家都知道IFLA有很久的历史，相信在图书馆界大家对IFLA 都不会陌生!但我自己参加IFLA是由WLIC 开始 [00:06:00.00]在2018年，澳门地区的高校图书馆联盟得到了政府的资助，有机会组织一班图书馆界同仁到马来西亚吉隆坡参加IFLA WLIC，透过这个机会，我们认识到世界各地图书馆的专家们，自己觉得是一个很好的平台去学习，透过这个平台，让世界各地的图书馆从业员了解我们本地图书馆的发展 [00:06:30.00]到2019年，我很荣幸当选了IFLA CPDWL，中文名为[继续职业发展与职场学习委员会]的成员，让我可以更直接参与在IFLA 专业组别的工作！

Ray : [00:06:48.28]吉隆坡是你第一次参与的IFLA 活动?

Carmen: [00:06:51.10] 对呀！吉隆坡是我第一次参与IFLA 的活动，2019年在希腊，就 [00:07:00.00]是第二次参会！之后因为疫情原因，会议为在线进行，少了机会参与实体会议。这是有关我跟IFLA的少少联系吧！

Ray : [00:07:14.65] 你有没有一个参与IFLA WLIC很难忘的回忆可以跟我们分享下呢?

Carmen: [00:07:24.78] 好的 [00:07:30.00]我参加了两届的WLIC，2018年于吉隆坡及2019年在希腊雅典都令我很难忘!今日主要想分享我在CPDWL 的工作，我们的组别有很多不同的项目，自己参与了一项名为’coaching initiative’的项目，我们每个人在工作的职业生涯都会面对很多不同的挑战，而透过coaching 这个过程，我们可以得到一些专业 [00:08:00.00]人员，或者在职场上从事了很久的图书馆从业员一些启发，从而令自己建立信心去跨越职场上遇到的问题！通过一对一的COACHING可以启发自身思考，帮助这位员工发挥他的潜能，我由2019年起开始参与其中，疫情期间透过在线进行， [00:08:30.00]至今已经参与数年！今年2023年于荷兰鹿特丹将会继续推行这个项目，现在委员会已经开始筹备工作！说起最难忘呢？除了参与会议，有幸跟世界各地不同的图书馆专家一起分享及学习，当然包括 [00:09:00.00]认识你!因为我们都在2019的WLIC 认识呢!

Ray : [00:09:04.63] 对呀！我在不同场合及会议都看到你呢!

Carmen: [00:09:12.28] 当中包括很多SESSIONS及会议都有很多机会认识世界的图书馆从业员！我觉得非常难忘的。

Ray : [00:09:25.63] 真是很好机会！下一个问题是[00:09:30.00]你对这个职业最感兴趣是什么?

Carmen: [00:09:35.86]在这个工作环境可以发现及认识很多新事物，帮助读者同时也可以扩展自己的知识及技能，在这个专业领域每日都遇到 [00:10:00.00]新挑战，例如怎样去满足我们的读者，我相信很多图书馆现在都面临一个经费的限制，我们可以怎样在有限的资源下，提供最优质的服务给读者，都是我们要思考的地方。例如在图书馆工作，自己 [00:10:30.00]需要变得敏锐，去应变社会的变化，所以这是一个充满挑战的行业。

Ray : [00:10:44.01] 如果对IFLA 感兴趣，你可否提供一些建议呢?

Carmen: [00:10:52.77] 我认为装备好自己，对业界的发展要有独觉性， [00:11:00.00]例如参与WLIC是一个很好的机会去初次了解IFLA 的活动!

他们每一年都会招募志愿者，我认为是很好的途径去接触IFLA [00:11:30.00]因为直接参与活动会有更多的体会！最紧要是首先踏出第一步，要以行动去感受，从行动去认识IFLA！

Ray : [00:11:51.10] 很同意，我认为都要慢慢开始，因为WLIC 有很多认识新朋友的机会， [00:12:00.00] 慢慢去扩阔这个网络。

Carmen: [00:12:08.50] 对呀！其实IFLA有很多不同的委员会，可透个自己感兴趣的委员会，参与他们在线研讨会， [00:12:30.00]这个都是一个接触IFLA 的途径！

Ray : [00:12:34.54]如果你不在图书馆工作？你认为你会做什么样的工作呢?

Carmen: [00:12:47.26] 真是一个很难答的问题！因为我在这个范畴已经很久了!如果真的需要从事令一个工作，自己比较喜欢与青少年及小朋友工作的一个人呢 [00:13:00.00] 我是一个有耐性的人，可能从事教育工作吧! 因为教育是互相影响，互相学习，因为教导人的同时自己的学习更大，因为未来的领袖太重要了。[00:13:30.00]我很希望我的工作上对社会有贡献，如果我不从事图书馆行业，我应该从事与’青少年’相关的工作。

Ray : [00:13:49.49] 原来这样!最后一个问题!

Carmen: [00:13:54.99]好。

Ray : [00:13:56.69] 你现在有什么项目跟进中? [00:14:00.00]可否分享一下?

Carmen: [00:14:04.57] 好！我尝试用三点来分享我现在的工作! 我工作的地点是澳门旅游学院，因应学院成为了[土生葡人美食烹饪技艺]-国家级非物质文化遗产的保护单位这个重任， [00:14:30.00]我们要保存[土生菜]，因此与其他单位合作，推出土生菜数据库，而图书馆也要设置土生菜专题室呢！希望构建、收录与土生菜相关资料、食谱、藏书等等，将这个重要的 [00:15:00.00]资源保存下来，传承到下一代，让他们了解这个深厚的文化底蕴，构建这个特藏是我工作其一的任务。

澳门是一个很少的地方，所以合作很重要!由2014起澳门地区便成立了高校图书馆联盟，把本澳的高等院校图书馆联合起来 [00:15:30.00]由 2023年起，本人庆幸得到大家的支持而成为新任的联盟主席，我的任期为2年，希望透过联盟，为澳门高校教职员及学生提供丰富的学习资源。每年4月是澳门[00:16:00.00]的图书馆周，无论大中小学或高等院校图书馆都忙着举办不同活动去支持这个盛事。为了融入国家的发展，早在2017年组织了粤港澳大湾区高校图书馆联盟，主要目的是促进我们三地图书馆交流，希望可以资源共建共享 [00:16:30.00]我们4月19至21号将会举办为期三日的活动，名为[2023粤港澳高校图书馆联盟年会暨馆长论坛]，过往因为疫情原因，很多会议都改为在线进行，今次为实体会议，我非常期待，可以跟粤港澳三地图书馆代表[00:17:00.00]交流，这几个项目让我感受到将会有一个很充实的2023年。

Ray : [00:17:10.65] 哗，真的要加油Carmen！

Carmen: [00:17:11.49] 对，我会努力呢！

Ray : [00:17:16.35] 我今天真的很多谢你的分享！ [00:17:30.00]真的很有意思，希望听众有什么问题都可以与我们CPDWL 联络。

Carmen: [00:17:40.92] 可以呀！我很多谢你的邀请! 让我有机会跟大家分享我的工作! 如有兴趣了解上述分享的项目，欢迎听众与我们联络。

Ray : [00:17:56.91] 好呀！我们未来时间会令一集的专访 [00:18:00.00]希望大家再收听我们的分享吧!! 下次再见!! Bye！

Carmen: [00:18:08.55] Bye。

Translation

Ray : [00:00:01.62]Hello. This is Ray Pun, welcome to our IFLA CPDWL podcast project, we often invite colleagues in the library field to share their work and we are happy to have Carmen Lei today.

Carmen: [00:00:30.39] [00:00:30.00]Hello everyone!

Ray : [00:00:32.49] Welcome, let us try to use Cantonese and English for this episode, can you tell us where you are and where do you work?

Carmen: [00:00:59.70] Sure [00:01:00.00] Hello everyone, first of all, I would like to thank Ray for the invitation to share my work in this platform. My name is Carmen and I’m from Macao.

Ray : [00:01:13.36] What type of library are you working？

Carmen: [00:01:16.06] I work in an academic library named ‘Macao Institute for tourism Studies.” The institute mainly offers undergraduate and postgraduate programmes in the area of Tourism and Hospitality, and I’m the head librarian.

Ray : [00:01:38.24] If you had to describe yourself using only one word, what word would it be?

Carmen: [00:01:47.18]Is very difficult to use simply one word as I’m a bit greedy! But if I must use one word only, I would say ‘responsibility’. I think is important to take up responsibility in whatever circumstances. [00:02:00.00] However, I would like to twist a bit of the question to what kind of person am I in the eyes of others? When others think of Carmen, what impression do they have? I hope I can be trusted by others in the workplace or in any different positions [00:02:30.00] I hope I can make people feel at ease when Carmen is around！

Ray : [00:02:32.96] What compelled you to become a librarian? How did you get started?

Carmen: [00:02:43.16] I remembered when I was in my undergraduate, I tried to look for opportunities to accumulate some working experiences [00:03:00.00]it happened that the Institute that I attended had a “Ten month management trainee scheme”,in which I had to work in the library after class, this is how I came into contact with the library and I enjoyed the atmosphere working there, I started to treat this as my profession and gradually continue my postgraduate in library science [00:03:30.00] time flies and I have been working in this industry for about 19 years.

Ray : [00:03:36.45] 19 years!

Carmen: [00:03:38.28] Yup, sounds quite a long time though…

Ray : [00:03:40.41] No..no..! Can you share with us your experiences after spending all these years in the library?

Carmen: [00:03:47.07] keep the enthusiasm and keep learning, because there is so much opportunities in the library industry. I still enjoy my job very much!

Ray : [00:03:59.67] That’s right! [00:04:00.00] What does global librarianship mean to you? Has that vision changed for you over the years?

Carmen: [00:04:07.23] I think this topic has a big change compared from the first day I stepped into the profession, especially in service innovation. When I first started working in the library, we pay more attention to resources management, how to provide quality one-stop services to users and meet their needs. [00:04:30.00] Now, aside from providing quality services, we also focus on sustainability. For instance, the SDG has been discussed. How libraries shoulder these responsibilities? We also focus on regional and international collaboration, how to build and share knowledge.

Ray : [00:04:52.32] In Macao, is ‘Global Librarianship’ on discussion?

Carmen: [00:04:55.71] Definitely! We [00:05:00.00] always share our views among different libraries. Especially under the time of covid, a lot of changes has been around for the past 3 years, and discussion on the ‘new normal’ in the post pandemic, no matter what type of libraries you work in, we always focus on ‘suspension of classes without suspending learning’,. [00:05:30.00] we seek ways to ensure library resources are made available to user anytime and anywhere!

Ray : [00:05:34.65] That’s great! How did you first get involved in IFLA?

Carmen: [00:05:45.24] We know that IFLA has a long standing history, but my participation in IFLA starts with WLIC. [00:06:00.00]In 2018, the Macao Academic Library Alliance had organized a group of library colleagues to attend the IFLA WLIC in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia with the support from the government, though this opportunity, we met library experts around the globe, we also make use of this platform to let the world learn about our local libraries as well. [00:06:30.00] In 2019, I’m honored to be elected as one of the standing committee member in IFLA CPDWL, so that I can directly get involved in IFLA activities.

Ray : [00:06:48.28]Is Kuala Lumpur your first encountered with IFLA?

Carmen: [00:06:51.10] That’s right! I started IFLA activities as a new-comer on WLIC in KL in 2018 and Athens in 2019, [00:07:00.00] Due to the epidemic, the WLIC has been moved online for a few years, I would say WLIC is somehow my connections with IFLA.

Ray : [00:07:14.65] Can you share with us a memorable moment you have about IFLA WLIC! Maybe a WLIC session or meeting or a social you attended?

Carmen: [00:07:24.78] Alright! [00:07:30.00]I participated twice in WLIC, one in KL and one time in Greece. Our group, CPDWL has various projects and I would like to share the ‘coaching initiative’ that I participated since 2019. Each of us will face lots of challenges in our day to day tasks, and through the process of coaching, we can get some inspiration from library professionals or librarians who have been working in the profession for a very long time. [00:08:00.00] Through the one on one coaching, you can gain some stimulation to build confidence to overcome problems we encountered in the workplace, it helps to inspire one’s own potentials! During the epidemic, the coaching initiative has been moved online. [00:08:30.00] In 2023, we will have the physical coaching again in Rotterdam, and the committee has started preparations for this project now! In additional to participate in conferences and involving in projects. [00:09:00.00] Ray, meeting you and many others in WLIC back in 2019 is also one of the memorable moments too, because we also build network in joining WLIC events.

Ray : [00:09:04.63] That’s right, I remembered seeing you in some of the events during the WLIC!

Carmen: [00:09:12.28] There are lots of sessions we can attend to know about different library colleagues around the globe! I think this is one of the memorable moments when participating in WLIC.

Ray : [00:09:25.63] Really great opportunity! Next question is what are you most excited about in the profession?

Carmen: [00:09:35.86] In our profession, you can discover many new skills and expand your knowledge every single day. [00:10:00.00] For example, how we can sustain the best service to users despite the heavy budget cut on libraries, how to keep up with ‘tech-savvy’ to adapt to the ever-changing world. When working in a library, [00:10:30.00] we need to become sensitive and adapt to social changes, so, it’s a challenging industry.

Ray : [00:10:44.01] What’s a professional development tip or advice that you’d like to share with others, particularly those who are new and/or would like to be involved in IFLA?

Carmen: [00:10:52.77] Well equip yourself and awareness on the development of the library industry! [00:11:00.00] For example, participating in WLIC is a great opportunity to learn about IFLA for the first time. They recruit volunteers every year, is a chance to reach out to IFLA [00:11:30.00] because with direct participation it will be more rewarding. The most important thing is to take the first step, feel it though action!

Ray : [00:11:51.10] Totally agree, because this is how we can make friends and build up network.

Carmen: [00:12:08.50] Yes, in fact, IFLA has many different committees, you can start by picking a committee with your own interest and participate their seminars and workshops online. [00:12:30.00]This is a way to get in touch with IFLA too.

Ray : [00:12:34.54] If you didn’t work in libraries, what profession other than librarianship would you have wanted to attempt?

Carmen: [00:12:47.26] What a difficult question to answer because I have been working in this field for so long. If I really need to engage to a new job, I prefer to work with teenagers or children. [00:13:00.00] I consider myself having patience with teens and kids, probably I would like to involve in education. Education to me is mutual influence and learning from each other, teens and kids are somehow leaders of the future! [00:13:30.00]I hope what I do can pay contribution to society, if I’m not working in the library industry, I hope to work with these future leaders.

Ray : [00:13:49.49] I see, let’s go into the last question…

Carmen: [00:13:54.99]Sure

Ray : [00:13:56.69] Can you tell us about a recent project, presentation or program that you are working on or an upcoming event that you’ll be “zooming” in and what you might be presenting on?

Carmen: [00:14:04.57] I would like to share 3 tasks. The IFTM I work for is named protection unit of National Intangible Cultural Heritage on Macanese Gastronomy, [00:14:30.00] Thus, we have the mission to preserve this Intangible asset, with co-operation with other government units, a Macanese Database has been established, the library has to take up responsibilities to create a special collection including monographs, recipes, manuscripts etc inside the library in preserving this important resources. [00:15:00.00] so that our next generation can understand this profound cultural heritage.

Macao is a small place, so collaboration is very important. Since 2014, the Macao Academic Library Alliance has been established. [00:15:30.00] In 2023, I am honored to run as Chairperson of the alliance for 2 years, I hope that through the work of the alliance, we can provide better services and rich resources for faculties and students among these member libraries. In addition, April is the Macao Library week, [00:16:00.00], different types of libraries are busy arranging different activities to support these important moments. To integrate into national development plans, the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area University Library Alliance has been established in 2017, the main purpose is to promote exchanges between these three regions, so that we can build and share resources. [00:16:30.00] The “2023 Annual Meeting of the Guangdong-Hong Kong -Macau University Library Alliance and Forum” will take place from 19-21 April in Macao this year, due to the epidemic, our previous conferences were held online, so I’m longing to meet these library friends again physically this month for sharing and exchange. [00:17:00.00] these projects keeps me motivated and I guess I will be having a very fulfilling 2023.

Ray : [00:17:10.65] Wow! You have to work hard Carmen.

Carmen: [00:17:11.49] Right, I will.

Ray : [00:17:16.35] Thanks for your sharing today! [00:17:30.00] Is very meaningful, thanks for listening to our episode today, get in touch with CPDWL if you have any queries.

Carmen: [00:17:40.92] Thanks for your invitation Ray, if listeners are interested to know more about our activities, they can get in touch with CPDWL or me.

Ray : [00:17:56.91] Sure, we will have another episode soon, [00:18:00.00] hope everyone can join us again next time, bye.

Carmen: [00:18:08.55] bye.

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 2: Lessa Kananiʻopua Pelayo-Lozada

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Our host for this episode is Ray Pun (CPDWL). Our guest is Lessa Kananiʻopua Pelayo-Lozada, American Library Association President.

Lessa Kananiʻopua Pelayo-Lozada is currently the President of the American Library Association. Lessa began her career at the County of Los Angeles Public Library’s Lomita Library as a page and has worked as a clerk, children’s librarian, teen librarian, and adult services librarian. She is currently the Adult Services Assistant Manager at the Palos Verdes Library District in Southern California and the Past Executive Director of the Asian/Pacific American Librarians Association.

Transcript

Ray
This is Raymond Pun, a member of the CPDWL standing committee. Welcome to the IFLA CPDWL Podcast Project. In this space, we talk with library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work.. Today’s guest is President of the American Library Association – Lessa Kananiʻopua Pelayo-Lozada. Welcome Lessa!

Lessa
Hi, Ray. Thanks for having me.

Ray
Yeah, we’re so excited to have you here. And for those who are not familiar with Lessa’s work, I will just share that Lessa began her career at the County of Los Angeles Public Library’s Lomita Library as a page and has worked as a clerk, children’s librarian, teen librarian, and adult services librarian. She is currently the Adult Services Assistant Manager at the Palos Verdes Library District in Southern California and the Past Executive Director of the Asian/Pacific American Librarians Association. And full disclosure. I do know Lessa, personally, due to our work at American Association, as well as the Asian Pacific American Librarians Association known as APALA. So I’m just excited to connect with Lessa here and have this conversation. And so we have a series of questions for you. And the first question we have for you is if you had to describe yourself using only one word, what word would it be?

Lessa
This is the most difficult question. I think that you’re probably going to ask me because I would say it does depend on the day I have a mini calendar that I keep on my desk that has like a different word so that you can signal to people what you are feeling that day. Right now it’s on, “spent”, but I would say if I had to pick one word for longterm, that would describe myself it is “enthusiastic.” Even if I don’t always feel enthusiastic. I tried to come off that way because I feel like the energy brings like you have to manifest what you want to be. So I’m gonna go with enthusiastic.

Ray
That’s a great choice of words. And it totally makes sense that it depends on your day, the mood and the context. So when I just read your bio there briefly and you’ve accomplished a lot a lot for folks who aren’t familiar with what’s amazing in her work and contributions to the field, but but sort of trying to find your your origin story, like What compelled you to become a librarian, like how did you get started?

Lessa
Yeah, so I was always drawn to work where I could be of service to others. I wanted to be an elementary school librarian. Ever since I was in elementary school pretty much I had some brief forays into wanting to be like a veterinarian and marine biologist, I think, as a lot of kids did growing up in the 90s that I don’t know how we got super into marine biology. But what made me become a librarian was I was actually working at Borders Books. I was in community college. So trying to figure out you know, what, four year I wanted to go to what my path looked like when I was going to be a teacher. And while I was working there, a group of librarians from the Los Angeles Public Library came in with their end of the year slush fund, and just bought carts and carts and carts of books. And I was like I asked the clerk are like, what, who are these people? They’re like, “Oh, they’re librarians.” And I was like, like, a librarian? Like, I’ve never thought that that was a career path. I went to the library every day after school from fourth grade and on because that was the place that I was allowed to go to by myself. I knew the librarians like checked out books, I was a, you know, avid reader. And so when I saw that, that was a career option and really started exploring, I was like this has a lot of those values of service that I really am drawn to and being a part of the community and giving back. And so I figured that it would probably be my second career once I got burnt out from teaching because I always like to have a plan B and you know, just be realistic about what the job market looks like. But I went to two days of credential classes at Cal State Long Beach and I was like, this job is not for me. Being in a classroom with you know, 30 kids all by myself, you know, with teacher’s aides and such, but I was like this is this is not what I thought it was going to be. And when I was in that credential class, a lot of the things I talked about, were about my love of research, my love of learning, my love of sharing that learning with all ages, and so that’s when I decided I was going to drop out of that program. I went down to my local library to ask if I could volunteer and bless the Community Library Manager Linda Shimani, she said, You seem like you’d be a great volunteer, but I actually really need a library page if you don’t mind being paid to work in the library. And that’s kind of the how it just got started. I started working as a page, went to library school and was on that children’s path ever since then, to be a children’s librarian to have that connection to my elementary school teacher roots.

Ray
Truly fascinating to hear how you went from working in a bookstore and then being sort of inspired by this kind of work that we’re doing in the field. And I wanted to sort of have a follow up with you about that, that experience working as a page and then being a librarian and sort of that those experiences because I know for many listeners, we’re all likely workers work in different roles, but whether that working as a page has really helped you prepare to be a librarian or maybe give you some insight that maybe to share some kind of insight that you have to share with listeners?

Lessa
Yeah, you know, I think that so I’ve been, you know, like you read in my bio page, I’ve been a library age I’ve worked behind the circulation desk. I think those experiences really shaped how I lead and how I managed within the library as a librarian. And it also shaped how I went through my MLS program, because I had that hands on experience, and I’ve worked in nearly every type of position that you can, I feel like it provides a different kind of appreciation for the ecosystem that goes into working in a library how although some of us might be degreed and been programming or collection developments, we are not any better. We are not above any job within the library, you know, and I think especially when you get into management roles, it’s important for staff at all levels to be able to see that you are willing to do that work. One of the libraries that I worked at the Rancho Cucamonga Public Library in Rancho Cucamonga California. Our library director Michelle Perera said, “I’ll never ask you to do anything that I wouldn’t do.” You know, and she came up in kind of that same way. And that’s a philosophy that I really carry with me as well, because I think that that’s how you create a real team. And that’s how you create a community and, you know, we’re a community based profession and a service based profession. So I think that that’s really informed my approach and it’s been reaffirmed along the way by other mentors and other people that I look up to

Lessa
That’s really well said and others the same maybe coming from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, who said all labor has dignity.

Lessa
hmm mmm.

Ray
So that that really resonates with with everyone’s role in the library and how they contribute to support the community. And then that actually leads to this other question about global librarianship. And so it’s, it’s important that that we are all in this together as individuals as organizations, but also as collective because our field is about information sharing, resource sharing, and learning together. So I wonder from your experience, and perspective, what does global librarianship mean to you and has that been changed for you over the years?

Lessa
So to me, global librarianship are all of the ways that we are connected. You know, I’ve really seen this over my year as a President having had the privilege, you know, to go to the IFLA, World Congress to go to the Sharjah Library Conference to go to the Guadalajara book here, and to be able to hear from folks and so hearing all of the challenges that we share, no matter where we are in the world, but also some of the opportunities that we see. You know, I think that to me, global librarianship is just that interconnectedness that we all have with our common values and our common goals to be able to ensure access to information to all regardless of where we live, or where we come from. It’s really important. And I think that the vision maybe hasn’t necessarily changed for me over the years. But I think that the approach has changed a little bit for me, especially having had a much more global context than I did before. And it’s because I my philosophy is often you know, like get your house in order. And then you can expand out right, but you can’t be as much good or as much service to others if you’re still really messy at home. But what I think that I’ve really found is that interconnectedness and hearing from each other actually helps us to get our own houses in order because it allows us to hear different approaches to different situations, you know, given different resources and different areas of the world that we live in. But the emphasis is just on how we are we’re all working together towards that common goal.

Ray
And you’d mentioned now as the ALA President, that’s really exciting and on top of that, Oh, you are leading this library association, the oldest one in the world. And one of the bigger biggest one so is it the biggest one? I think ..

Lessa
It is the oldest and largest,

Ray
It is oldest and largest. And so it’s pretty remarkable and and how you were explaining your views on global librarianship. So this is a question for those who are thinking about getting involved with ALA or within their own national or local library associations. How did you get first, How did you first get involved

Lessa
When I first got involved with ALA, I became a member in library school. I was not actually a member of our ALA student chapter because I was like, I’m not really much of a joiner. I’m a little bit shy. I don’t really participate in a lot of things, which are folks who know me now would never believe. But I started the Asian Pacific American Librarians Association I was invited into work on a project called, Talk Story – sharing stories sharing culture,” which was an initiative of an ALA president, then ALA President, Camila Alire, and so I started working on that project and was had the opportunity to attend. It wasn’t my first but it was the first memorable one ALA Annual Conference in Washington DC which also happened to coincide with a APALA’s 35th anniversary. And so I was exposed to this huge network of passionate library lovers who were librarians who were clerks who were friends of the library, all of these people who really cared and I already cared but it made me want to care on a level outside of my local level outside of my local library, because I saw the national impact that these folks were able to make. And so I just kept volunteering. After I finished the project with backstory, I became an elite Emerging Leader, I was a policy Emerging Leader, they selected me so I was able to go through that program. And that opened a lot of doors and a lot of opportunities for me to run for ALA Council or to serve on ALA committees like the Committee on Diversity. So not only represent APALA, but to represent all of the intersectionalities that I have in myself as an identity and the intersectionalities that I have in myself as a library worker, you know, living and working in Southern California. And so I just kept saying yes to opportunities. I now have a post it on my computer that says no, because sometimes you can say yes to too much. But I think that it’s important to say yes to things that you really believe in and to things that you really want to do. And so that has evolved into becoming a president now.

Ray
Thanks for sharing your journey. And for those who are not familiar, the American Library Association’s Emerging Leaders Program is a one-year program sponsored by American Library Association, as well as many other library groups. But you do need to be an ALA member. So if you’re interested in participating, consider looking up that information and signing up being an ALA member as well. And I believe some library groups in different parts of the world might have a similar Leadership Development Program, take advantage of them. And that’s how you could learn to learn how organizations operate and get more involved that way. So thank you for sharing. And Lessa, you had mentioned to me before that, IFLA, the world library information congress was held in Dublin in Ireland last year. That was your first time right, attending IFLA?

Lessa
It was it was so fun.

Ray
Okay, so that’s, that’s great to hear. And, and can you share with us a memorable moment at that congress and maybe a session or meeting you attended?

Lessa
Yeah. So there, it was hard to narrow it down because there were a couple of real highlights for me. So the first one that I will do more than one sorry. The first one that I’ll highlight was on Indigenous languages. Right. And so coming into that panel with a very American Lens, I’m thinking Indigenous languages like ʻŌlelo Hawaii, right, like Native Hawaiian languages, like speaking Navajo, you know what that looks like. And it was a panel of folks who were reviving Welsh and Celtic, you know, things that from that American lens, I don’t think though, and so seeing those similarities, right to how colonization, how oppression works and manifests in different forms against different people. So that was one session that I thought was really interesting on how they use metadata and wiki data to be able to revitalize these languages in print form, as well as in speaking in an auditory form and how also these practices are being ingrained in school and how to make it a living language rather than just something that you learned because it’s a requirement, and then you you never speak it again. So that was one. I also found there was a session on what library leadership and management looks like that that was facilitated by former ALA President Loida Garcia-Febo where they talked about different leadership tracks and different ways to cultivate leadership in different countries. And so there I did share a little bit about emerging leaders. But the value of mentoring really came out and the value of mentoring across countries when maybe you’re working in a place where you are by yourself often, or you don’t have a very strong, perhaps national library association or local library association for these opportunities. And so the importance also with IFLA, I found to be really helpful in that context as well. And then the final highlight that I will share was also meeting the first Pacific Islander presidents and LIANZA, The New Zealand Library Association. So as we were all the first Pacific Islander president of our association, we got a picture and we’ve been in contact ever since and are looking for ways that we can collaborate and also to support international indigenous librarians.

Lessa
Oh, I’m so glad to hear that you’re able to make all these connections and in your first if law conference to so that’s really, really great to hear. And will you be attending the Congress in Netherlands Rotterdam in August?

Lessa
Unfortunately, I don’t think I’ll be able to make the conference in Rotterdam but I do hope to be able to go to another episode in the future.

Lessa
That sounds good. So with that being said, I know you had described earlier in the first question, that you’re very enthusiastic, depending on the context, but what are you most excited about in the profession today?

Lessa
I think the thing that I’m the most excited about right now is the future of our profession. I’ve met so many library school students who are also so enthusiastic and who are so passionate but also have really wonderful ideas on how we can be better how we can be better as a profession, how we can be more inclusive as a profession, but also how to be better for our communities. They’re coming in with completely different perspectives. And I think even I came into library school with you know, 15 years ago and they’re coming into, you know, a Post George Floyd world where we cannot ignore me cannot not talk about the systemic barriers. And I think that a lot of the library school students I’m seeing are taking that challenge head on and are not afraid of it and really just want to do the best and I’m so excited to see where they are going to take us.

Lessa
Definitely, IFLA has been intentionally working on diversity as a value in its organization and and really beyond the diversity of geographic regions, which has been quite the framing of diversity, but now looking more into intersectionality and different identities within the regions to so I think there’s there’s definitely a lot a lot of work ahead but also promising work. And with that, if you can share with us a professional development tip or advice that you’d like to share with others, particularly those who are new and or would like to be involved at ALA.

Lessa
So the first one that I’ll say is, you know, don’t be afraid to volunteer for things. We are always looking for folks to work on different projects or different committees. And even if you may not be selected, you know, your first time volunteering, do not give up, because we look at you know how interested folks are how often they want to put themselves out there. And just to note that when you volunteer for something, you have to put in information about why you want to volunteer, and I will say that, as President making committee appointments and having committees helped me do this, we’d read those, we actually sit down and really internalize and try to understand who is going to be the best fit based off of that information, because it’s impossible. For us to know you know, all 500 applicants, but if we can get a sense of who you are from your bio and that you take it seriously and that you really want to be a part of that enthusiasm goes through and I think that that holds true for any organization, right that you’re volunteering for. And then the other tip that I would give is that I think conferences can be really overwhelming. You know, like, it’s been a long time since ALA was it’s it’s my first ALA conference, which was when I was in library school in I believe, 2008 and it was in Anaheim, California, was so overwhelming that I was pretty sure I would never go to another ALA annual conference. And when I first arrived that IFLA I got kind of that that similar overwhelmed feeling. You know, like I didn’t know that many folks there. There were many of our American colleagues, of course, so I did recognize but it wasn’t the kind of that comfort that now I’m used to at ALA and I had to remind myself how did how did I find comfort in this especially as somebody who was a little bit more introverted, and I remembered my rule of thumb which is just to meet one new person, one new person a day if you’re feeling ambitious when new person at an event and you don’t have to make a deep connection necessarily just Hi. Where do you work? Find out a little bit about them that may develop into something and even develop into a project. I feel like a lot of librarianship is like when you’re a teen and you want it like everybody wants to form a band, right? Like in librarians, everybody wants to write a paper together and do a project together. And so those opportunities come when you put yourself out there and you just say hello to somebody and learn a little bit about them. So those are my two tips.

Ray
Yeah, those are really great tips. Really appreciate you just framing it where you folks meet with one person who and yeah, they could really change the course of the work that they do potentially or just having connections and and just sort of go outside your comfort zone. I think that’s some that’s really key there. And now we’d like to know if you didn’t work in libraries, what profession other than librarianship which I wanted to attend.

Lessa
If we take teaching off the table, I will say that I would love to be a professional photographer. I do like you know, definitely a hobbyist photographer, but I just really find the observant quality of it and the removal that you can have to be behind the camera and behind the lens to be really a fascinating way to look at our world. So that is another profession. That I would do if it wasn’t librarianship and I felt like I was a little bit more artsy probably.

Ray
Would that also include like weddings, you think?

Lessa
Oh, okay, so that’s a good clarification. So I love like nature, photography, and still photography. So I have a series that my husband kind of makes fun of me for but I love taking pictures of empty benches. The benches are empty chairs, like in places that are either in nature or would normally be in really busy areas to kind of show like what the absence of people looks like in these places and what kind of calm and serenity looks like so things don’t move things that can’t talk about and tell me they don’t like their photos or my focus.

Ray
That makes sense and and what about people like statues sitting the benches? Would you take pictures of that where you want a completely empty bench?

Lessa
Usually I do a completely empty bench but statues sitting on benches and an interesting angle. I have not I have not been able to do photography, really throughout this elite journey. So I’m really excited to take up the camera again when this is all over. And I think I’m going to explore that a little bit more. Thank you for that idea. Ray.

Ray
We are really interested in seeing some of these is there a website or something you’re just doing on the side privately?

Lessa
I do have a photography website that I started a long time ago. I believe the address is https://kodachromelibrarian.wordpress.com/

Ray
We’ll be sure to put that in the transcript. So folks…

Lessa
Yeah, I’ll find it.

Ray
Thanks for sharing that and in addition to that, so it’s really a great to hear about outside of librarianship so if you were to do that, but in addition to that kind of project that you are working on, are there any other recent activities coming up presentations or programs that you’re working on or an event that maybe you’ll be zooming in and what might you be presenting on?

Lessa
Yeah, so I have a number of presentations coming up. I will be speaking at the Massachusetts Library Association. I will be speaking with the University of Maryland. And I will also be speaking with the Florida Library Association on you know what it means to be brave in librarianship right now. So my presidential theme has been our brave communities because we’ve had to be brave in ways that we didn’t know possible because of COVID Because of you know, the protests that we’ve gone through because of life looking completely different than it did a couple of years ago. And so all of the different ways that we’ve internalized this and turned it into hope. I think an optimism for our communities is really important, as well as making sure that we keep ourselves you know, in a state of action and always trying to improve while also recognizing that we can burn out and that we do have to have rest and so the way that these conflicting things, lots of libraries is what a lot of those presentations will be about. And I’ll send links along also for the University of Maryland one is open to anyone who wants to view so we can share that out and that’ll be during National Library Week at the end of April. But I’m also really excited about our upcoming ALA Annual Conference in Chicago, which will be June 22 through the 27th. I’m very excited about my ALA President’s program, which is going to feature Kumu Hula and documentarian and cultural practitioner Hinaleimoana Wong-Kalu who who also won a Stonewall Honor Award at the Youth Media Awards for her book of Kapaemahu. So she’ll be one of our speakers amongst the you know, hundreds of wonderful alien members who will also be presenting all of the exciting events that we’ll have. Chicago was kind of a coming home for me, that’s where I had my APALA presidency, presidential year as well. And so a lot of really important things have happened to me professionally in Chicago and I’m excited to celebrate with everyone the you know, first fully in person you’re really that we’ve had in this hybrid here.

Ray
So many wonderful things, Lessa, that you are sharing and working on. Congratulations on a really fantastic ALA presidency. I know what you still have several more months to go but still like it’s just a joy watching all the work and others working with you and what you’re all doing to build community and promote librarianship and the core values that we are really deeply committed to. So thank you again Lessa, for taking the time to chat with me and, and for sharing your your your ideas and thoughts with us. We really appreciate you doing this work and really inspiring all of us here.

Lessa
You are right, it has been a pleasure. And folks, please definitely keep in touch and let me know if I can be of any help to you now or in the future.

Ray
That’s great. And with that, we will end it here. So thank you so much. everyone for listening. And be sure to stay tuned for our next episode. Take care!

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 1: Kate Dohe, Celia Emmelhainz, Erin Pappas, and Maura Seale

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Colleagues, we are excited to announce the our new episode (season 4) of the CPDWL Podcast Project where we feature library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work.

See here for the podcast

Our co-hosts for this episode are Ray Pun (CPDWL) and Catharina Isberg (M&M). Our guests are Kate Dohe, Celia Emmelhainz, Erin Pappas, and Maura Seale. The topic is on sabotaging and saboteurs in libraries.

Kate Dohe (she/her) is the Director of Digital Programs & Initiatives at the University of Maryland Libraries. Kate’s team oversees day-to-day activities related to digital content creation, access, and preservation, as well as digital library application services, web services, and discovery platforms. Select publications include “Care, Code, and Digital Libraries: Embracing Critical Practice in Digital Library Communities” (In the Library with the Lead Pipe), and “After Fedora: Linked Data and Ethical Design in the Digital Library” (Ethics in Linked Data, forthcoming). She holds an MLISc from the University of Hawai’i at Mānoa, and a BSEd in Speech and Theater from Missouri State University.

Celia Emmelhainz is a supervisory anthropologist and head of the National Anthropological Archives at the Smithsonian Institution. She previously worked as an academic librarian in California and Maine, and as a school and university librarian in Kazakhstan. She holds degrees in library science and anthropology. Her research projects have focused on personal names, missionaries, emotional labor, organizational dynamics, career decision-making, missionaries, and neurodiversity in libraries.

Erin Pappas is Research Librarian for the Humanities at the University of Virginia, where she supports Slavic Literatures and Languages, Anthropology, Linguistics, Media Studies, and Women, Gender, and Sexuality. She holds degrees in Russian literature and anthropology from Reed College, in anthropology from the University of Chicago, and in library science from the University of Kentucky. She is the co-editor, with Liz Rodrigues, of the #DLFTeach Library Cookbook. Her research interests include emotional labor, early career mentoring, international digital libraries and digital humanities, and improvisation.

Maura Seale is the History Librarian at the University of Michigan, providing research and instructional support for students and faculty in the History Department. Her research focuses on critical librarianship, library pedagogy, political economy and labor in libraries, and race and gender in libraries. She is the co-editor, with Karen P. Nicholson, of The Politics of Theory in the Practice of Critical Librarianship (2018), and is also co-editing the forthcoming volume from ACRL Press,Exploring Equitable and Inclusive Pedagogies: Creating Space for All Learners. Her work can be found at www.mauraseale.org.

Reference:

Centivany, A. (2017). The dark history of HathiTrust. In Proceedings of the 50th Hawaii International Conference on System Sciences. https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/fimspub/120/

Dohe, K., Emmelhainz, C., Seale, M., & Pappas, E. (2022). The saboteur in the academic library. In Libraries as Dysfunctional Organizations and Workplaces (pp. 149-166). eds by Spencer Acadia. Routledge.

Ettarh, F. (2018). Vocational awe and librarianship: The lies we tell ourselves. the Library with the Lead Pipe, 10. https://www.inthelibrarywiththeleadpipe.org/2018/vocational-awe/

Petersen, A. H. “The Librarians Are Not Okay.” Substack newsletter. Culture Study, May 1, 2022. Accessed March 9, 2023. https://annehelen.substack.com/p/the-librarians-are-not-okay.

Holyoke, F & Acadia, S. (2022). CPDWL Project Podcast Season 3, Episode 5. https://blogs.ifla.org/cpdwl/2022/11/04/cpdwl-podcast-project-season-3-episode-5-spencer-acadia-and-fran-holyoke/

Transcript:

Ray: Welcome to the IFLA CPDWL podcast project. In this space we talk with library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work. My name is Ray Pun, a CPDWL standing committee member and co host. I’m here with Catharina Isberg, a co host and CPDWL advisor and IFLA Management and Marketing standing committee member. CPDWL and M&M sections are collaborating on discussing challenges and issues and leadership and overall toxic librarianship. Catharina, welcome.

Catharina: Thank you very much Ray. My name is Catharina and that is like I’m from Sweden. And not native English speaking in this context. As Ray said, part of the Management and Marketing section and we actually just celebrated our 25th anniversary. So it’s a section that has been around for a couple of years working on management and marketing issues. And for example, we have the IFLA pressreader International library marketing award every year and also we have a blog where we collect different things about management skills and we collaborate with CPWDL as Ray said.

Ray: Great, thank you for sharing. And so we are co-hosting this episode today, and today we have four guests with us. Kate, Celia, Maura and Erin are co-authors of this chapter called, “The saboteur in the academic library,” published in Libraries as Dysfunctional Organizations and Workplaces edited by Spencer Acadia. Welcome all. How about you all introduce yourselves. Let’s start with Kate.

Kate: Great so I’m Kate Dohe. I’m the director of digital programs initiatives for the University of Maryland Libraries. Thank you for inviting me today.

Ray: Celia?

Celia: I’m Celia Emmelhainez. I am the program manager for the National anthropological archives in the Smithsonian and formerly an academic and school librarian.

Ray: How about Maura?

Maura: I am Maura Seal. I’m the librarian for History at the University of Michigan.

Ray: And finally, Erin.

Erin: Yeah, probably the shortest title Erin Pappas. I’m humanities librarian at the University of Virginia.

Ray: Thank you all so much. We’re excited to have you all here and looking forward to hearing your thoughts. So Catharina and I have questions from a few M&M and CPDWL standing committee members, we had a chance to review your chapters in advance. So for those who haven’t read this chapter yet, I’ll briefly share that this article is focusing on the acts of sabotage in academic libraries, and how to address and understand the unintentional and willful saboteurs alike as the co authors wrote in the abstract, “library saboteurs have the potential to derail and impede our organizational missions, as well as to push back against toxic leadership and mismanagement. This chapter explores the power and powerlessness of the library saboteur and outlines how staff at all levels can identify the saboteur in the next cubicle and in their own learned behavior.” So let’s start off with this first question. Why this topic? How did you all connect with each other to work on this article? How about we start with Erin?

Erin: Sure. So this is definitely an instance where you don’t want to give too much away but anybody who does a tiny little bit of digging will definitely be able to, to identify. So three of us used to work together at one institution or one of us to did not but we’re connected through various particularly areas studies and kind of subjects the specialities and we connected because we work together and we worked in a sort of dysfunctional workplace. We’ll put it that way. And so the topic was very much worn out of experience. The topic was very much born out of like kind of the beginning to be joking and being like, Hey, has anyone seen this and has anyone seen this, you know, sabotage manual and blah, blah, blah, and starting to think about it in a kind of more systematic way, especially once we got all dispersed and relocated from that particular work environment. So this was something that we all kind of felt resonated with us in former positions, certainly in our current workplaces, capacities, and a conversation that we’ve all had ongoing as collaborators as friends and as colleagues, I think over the last few years, so we kind of hate and Celia and I sort of began this in a very low key way with a presentation and then more kind of joined in and it became a little bit more of a serious, ongoing project. I think that covers it. Does that feel about right? Okay.

Catharina: Okay, thank you. When I was reading an article, I was actually starting to wonder about being a saboteur is one thing, but having a sabotaging behavior. is another thing, because it’s a full scale from just a minor behavior until you get up to almost being a saboteur. So what would you say is the difference between the saboteur and the person sabotaging behavior? Maura, would you like? To start over?

Maura: Sure, I’ll get us started. So I think Ray alluded to this too, in his introduction. But I think an important thing in our chapters is that anyone can engage in sabotaging behavior and we all probably do at various points. There are things we don’t want to do. There are things that you know, some of sabotage we talk about being related to like having too much work, not having enough autonomy, things like that. So I think a key takeaway is like we can all do this. There’s not like the deviant saboteur, like as a standalone figure like we all engage in this behavior. And the important thing really is to recognize when you are doing it and for in, you know, for which reasons why are you doing this, and you know, I say a lot like don’t lie to yourself. So acknowledging, like, if you’re, you know, stymieing a process or or what have you. And I do also think that there are saboteurs I can think of people who are just sort of interested in mostly shutting things down and not letting like, good things happen in avoiding things that make them uncomfortable, and those sorts of things. So, I feel like we, I at least tend to see more of like people engaging in sabotaging behavior, and then occasionally, you’ll see like, a very bad actor who sort of goes beyond that and, and I don’t know what their deal is, but yeah, and I don’t know if anyone else wants to jump in here. That’s sort of how I took that question.

Celia: I think, this is Celia, I think I would add that saboteur often when we use the word in English, we think of it as being very deliberate. So somebody’s deliberately continually doing something and a sabotaging behavior as more outlined. All of us do that, in many ways, in our friendships, in our households, in our workplaces. It’s a human behavior. That’s a learned behavior. And so you know, whether that’s good or bad, I think that’s something we could continue to discuss.

Kate: I’ll chime in just a little bit more. This is Kate. You what there are two things that I was very interested in when it came to this idea of like sabotaging behavior versus like be just being a saboteur. You know, as Aaron mentioned, you know, we all started or like many of us, you were at one institution and all moved on to like different organizations and you know, have seen this kind of again and again is commonality in like a lot of workplaces. I went to a management position. I’m currently in the middle manager level role right now. And I started to think more about the ways that sabotage gets very explicitly used particularly by people who are moving up the managerial chain. And so that, again, is something that I would often think about when it came to you as a manager and thinking even myself and reflectively, they’re like, Okay, is my reaction to this and my strategy here weaponizing, the organization right, and if I am doing that, and if I’m making those choices I you consciously try and stop myself about that, or at least as you Maura says, like, not lying to myself, to the best of my ability. But yes, you know, back to the point about like, people who are just saboteurs this is the way that they operate in the world. I also was thinking a lot about like library change management and particularly about how that is frequently a reaction organizational change and fundamental powerlessness. But, and I have seen that again, and again across like a variety of different workplaces and themes, but yes, I can also think of people who, you know, frequently are, I think malicious actors in the organization and that they’re difficult to deal with because they have figured out how to play by our structures in the organization across you know, and against each other. So

Catharina: Excellent. Thanks so much. It’s really a responsibility that we all have in the organization to really look into and reflect on what we’re doing.

Ray: Yeah, I should say that it reminds me of maybe some activities that’s inherently political. I mean, everything is political, but but search committee interviewing process, I feel like that has gravitated towards more of people wanting to sabotage because they prefer one candidate or the other or for whatever reason, and I feel like there’s some something to be said about certain types of activities. And it reminds me also of these metaphors, I keep hearing over and over which I don’t, I don’t recall being mentioned in the article or chapter specifically, but I think it’s worth mentioning it here in the podcast, so I’ll just say them briefly. For instance, there’s an article I read maybe it was the Harvard Business Review where they describe people as possibly as conflict entrepreneurs, people who are seeking out conflict for you know, sometimes for their own benefit or for some self interest or for the organizational good, right. But because conflict, sometimes can can create creative tension, which is sometimes needed, but sometimes it can create as we all experience in different ways, challenges. So there’s, there’s those types of folks. And then there are broken records, people who will keep saying over and over things have been done this way. And we won’t change or what for whatever reason, right? So so it’s stymie the process as well, right? And so so that’s something that I heard, and the next one is traffic cone. People who will block the flow of work and you got to work around them. I know it’s kind of odd to hear that but sometimes there are people who just refuse to work with the way things are going and you have to move the traffic cone to other other areas. So anyway, I’m just sort of like reflecting on what you all share and then some of the sort of parts and pieces that I’m hearing that people are sort of naming them in different ways. And so our next question is about the word sabotage which while we were also describing it as having negative connotations, however, as argued in the chapter, it can be used for good too. So for example, advocating for social justice, equity, fighting against mission creep, attending to self care, and then the bad parts right? Like power plays, workplace bullying, microaggressions, etc. So do you think that sabotage is the most apt term when used as a shield? Maybe those actions are better described as resistance or something else or more fight for the right than saboteur and I wonder if anyone wants to jump in?

Celia: Yeah, this is Celia. I’ll jump in on that. I think one of the things that we talked about in our chapter referring to your sort of fight to the right is that people often cloak or think of their own actions as right or just and sometimes they are and sometimes they are. And so if we shy away from using a term like sabotage because it feels loaded, one of the challenges we have is that even people who are doing pretty pernicious sabotage will frame everything they do as right and just so that’s the first thing that occurs to me there. Second, I don’t think we should be afraid of bad human behaviors and this is my take on anthropologist negative social behaviors are part of how social humans like social animals function. And I think one thing I’ve reflected on recently, I’ve also recently moved into a management position and I’m now at a different place in an organization and the complex I face are different. The challenges I face are different. And so if I do sabotage, it’s taken maybe a different shape in my toolkit and something we didn’t look at that I would be very curious about would be is sabotage different at different levels of an organization or a power structure. Does it work differently? Does the behavior itself look different?

Erin: Oh, no, I was just gonna say that point to power is really, really interesting. And actually, I’m like, oh, that’s something I’d like to you know, kind of explore further because one of the things we’ve spoken about before is that kind of situational sabotage which Ray I love that idea of the traffic cone like I’m already thinking of like, very simple workflows where you’re like, alright, well, we know so and so is going to put up this roadblock or we know so and so is going to be unhappy about that. And you actually have to spend a lot of time and energy kind of, you know, diverting the flow of traffic around them, but I don’t know I don’t know if it’s a great idea than to be like, oh, when we purposely do this kind of action, it then has a positive outcome. I mean, this this manual is literally about, you know, resistance fighters, right. So I think it can be a little bit weird to then be like, we’re somehow you know, resisting things being done to us. I think it’s still I think it’s okay to still call it sabotage that that kind of semantic weight can maybe go either way, but yeah, I think talking about the question of power is maybe like a little bit more interesting because the sort of net outcome may be the same but like, where the power rests and whether it’s a sort of like yes, I love that conflict entrepreneur. I expect to see that on someone’s like Twitter bio in a moment, but like whether or not right the person is doing it as something sort of reactive and or situational and like den doing that from a place of having less power, I think is perhaps different from someone who like like Kate and Celia at some kind of slightly higher up perspective has have noticed, so that might be worth kind of considering but yeah, resistance is okay, but I don’t think I would say I’d want to like add any other kind of loaded terminology just because I think it like some people who are some of the worst saboteurs actually think they’re being super helpful, or that they’re actually making things better and everyone else is like, why are you like this like this? Is absolutely un-tenable.

Kate: Right? This Kate. Yeah, like to everybody’s point here. I do think and certainly from people that I know that have engaged in sabotage behaviors or who are actively saboteur is like they do tend to believe I think, first and foremost that they’re, you know, helping other people and I think frequently that that is not always quite as clear cut. And again, I’m thinking about this a bit from a managerial position. It’s like a question to me of like, communication. Okay, so like, a good hypothetical example. I’m trying to be a little sensitive about like a just not like being like, Oh, this other fun story from work the other day for one, but I’m also trying to generalize some actual stories that I have heard but like a good example might be like, computer labs. Okay. I think that many of us that work in academic libraries, in particular, you’re used to seeing or computer labs during finals exams, like they are chockablock, you know, certainly in my library with student workers, or sorry with students, they’re working on their projects and they have like that urgent need and I think that in a hypothetical scenario where like management and leadership have decided that we actually are going to need that computer lab space, we’re gonna have to clear out like 70 of those because you know, a it’s not cost effective for us to necessarily maintain all of those when increasing amount of students are really working off of their own devices. And then B that space might be better utilized for serving different future user needs, right. Like digital scholarship, or like, you know, information labs or different types of research space. I’ve seen and certainly like I think we can all think about like some ways that saboteurs would find that resisting consider themselves to be like, Yes, I’m advocating for the students. For those like you … like that crushing final exam season we cannot possibly get rid of all of these workstations, you know, and I’m doing it for them. And it’s like, Well, are you or are you projecting a lot of things here? You know, and again, I think that sometimes it’s something that’s common in libraries, is this tendency to kind of project like, Yes, I’m here for the user. I am a champion of the user, but really, I’m triangulating a lot. Of my own perspectives about how we work and what our office you know, what our organization does and who it serves. And then again, sometimes it’s you know, maybe there’s less buy in for this idea of like, something new and innovative either because it maybe hasn’t been communicated effectively by leadership or maybe it’s just still very hypothetical and untested, you know, those things happen as well. But that’s one of those like scenarios where I often think about this question of like, view, am I doing this for like, on behalf of somebody you know, considering this like part of the resistance or am I doing this because, you know, I have a lot of biases that have come to play in my approach.

Erin: Okay, that’s Oh, I like I actually like, I immediately was like, Well, of course, you want the computer. Like I can’t think of how many meetings I’ve been where I’m like, No, you can’t get there. You cannot assume that everybody has their own their own device or whatever. But I think there’s like there’s a real tension between that like, we’ve always done things this way. And that can be like, This is what the building looks like. This is what the workflow is. This is you know, how many people we have staffing the desk, whatever that is, but the like, less sexy work of maintenance, which we’re always constantly talking about. We’re like, okay, but who is staffing the desk, okay, but like, who is updating that computer lab and who is maintaining that and like sometimes, like just fighting for something like that baseline of maintenance ends up like being this kind of weird act of active resistance, you know, like I shouldn’t be taking a stand for like, don’t change the catalog in the middle of the semester or whatever it is that you’re trying to sort of do or like, maybe don’t do this update until, you know the summer what have you. So I don’t know. It’s like, it’s a weird tension, I guess because like, there are things if you said to me, we’re gonna get rid of the computer lab and replace it with a makerspace. I would immediately get there like, I can feel myself getting to review other signals, hypothetical scenario, and advocating for the students but then also, like, I see people who do that and like, well, nobody uses that or nobody is doing that. So it’s like, again, some of it’s just positionality, Maura, I think maybe you have something to say to it.

Maura : Yeah, I do. But but it’s not related.

Erin: So OK we should have zig zag.

Maura” I guess like one thing I just wanted to fly here is like libraries like within libraries, like we’re so averse to talking and thinking in productive ways about power and conflict. And that’s part of like being in higher ed like I don’t know how many like teaching faculty don’t understand that, like the university is a hierarchical system right and that some people have more power than others like they seem very often seem very resistant to that. And I think it’s just sort of exacerbated by sort of the culture of library niceness. But like that real aversion to thinking about and it’s not like power is always bad either, right? Like you can deploy power in like productive and like good ways, but like we really don’t want to talk her think about it. Like everyone gets along here. Everyone’s fine. And also just I think goes with that, like, I’ve been thinking a lot about how so many things are wrapped up in feelings like how people have feelings about things that like and no one acknowledges that was either so

Celia: I think this is Celia. One of the other things several things come to mind to me here. And one is I’ve had some times recently where I felt like I had to insert myself to pause something that wasn’t working effectively and I was pretty direct. I’d go to somebody and say, I don’t support you. I am going to be trying to block this and here’s why. And I felt a certain amount of competence in doing that. And to me that’s a little bit different than sabotage because I’m not being deceitful about it. But at the same time I recognize like Maura says we’re often in organizations where motives are cloaked and where we’re not honest. And that’s part of how the organization operates. And you can’t always be honest. So we talked about that a little bit in the chapter about what about if you can’t make an open assertion of what you or your users need? Does that sort of inevitably lead to sabotage? And this conversation had me thinking about a chapter a friend handed me not too long ago. In a book called images of organization. That’s 1980s organizational theory type books. So it’s a little outdated, but it was very interesting. There was a chapter called interests, conflict and power organizations as political systems. And it was kind of outlining the situation we sometimes find ourselves in but also cautioning that this is a metaphor and that we don’t want to sort of start to see political power plays and sabotage, in every action that we or our colleagues make. There really are other ways to see this and reframe this to

Catharina: Excellent. It’s really interesting to listen to you and we have been talking about these different levels. But I really think that in the end of this discussion right now, we started thinking about the levels of power maybe isn’t that important. But then also, we can start to think about different kinds of libraries. Is there a difference between a public library or an academic libraries you have in the chapter looked into the academic library mainly, but can you see the difference between different library types? And also, as you said, we really feel strongly about libraries. Is that something that really makes a difference to other businesses when it comes to centers?

Kate: So how can you get started on this? I think that you know, everybody’s alluded to this at different points, I think in the course of this conversation, but one of the things in particular, I think what we found interesting about approaching this from the academic library setting is that they are frequently like deeply hierarchical organizations that masquerade as egalitarian ones. Right. And you in particular, what I think about when it comes to like the academic libraries is the way that we are also frequently like subject and situated to the institutional hierarchy, right. And this one, I will actually draw on some of my experience at the University of Maryland because I actually give like a lecture about this and I talk a lot about like organizational power. So I’ll just run with this. Um, you within our academic library, you know, I am also in addition to being like in supervisory position, I am a tenured faculty status librarian or technically we have permanent status. Because we are not allowed to have full tenure in the same way that the instructional faculty are, which is another set of power and hierarchy in my organization. But I am afforded a lot of you privileges within that organization and a lot of power within that organization that is not available to other permanent status track faculty who are still on the path and need to get voted on by their peers. Certainly in comparison to staff members in my organization, who have fewer opportunities available to them and who have like, in many cases, somewhat limited ability to participate in certain types of projects and certain types of shared governance, and to be able to supervise certain types of personnel, right. We have encoded all of those things within our organization. And yeah. And to typically say, like, well, we’re the libraries and try and allied a lot of those like power differentials. And I think that’s where we really saw the differentiation with academic libraries. A secondary piece of that is our relationship to the institution, our parent institution at large, where as a Service Unit, we and I think that different organizations feel this in different ways. But I’ve worked at relatively few universities where the libraries were very much for grounded in terms of you the narrative on campus, right frequently we we’ve always been, I think, a bit of an afterthought, a little bit of like, oh, the libraries will do that type of position. And so there’s, I think, sometimes a tendency towards in libraries to feel that as a different type of status, right that we aren’t necessarily equivalent with other research units on the campus that we are expected. To be in a service role for faculty. And I’ve seen different organizations that tend to take, you know, and different leadership styles where we’re very much at the whims of faculty on campus or other department heads or donors who may come in with a new and exciting project. And suddenly, that’s something we’re doing and not necessarily like steering our own course. When it comes to other types of businesses, I’m gonna sidestep a little bit on like other types of libraries and public libraries because I suspect Celia might have some perspective on this now. But when it comes to other types of businesses, I’m very interested in some of the literature on sabotage that happens in other types of service professions and organizations right, and that that tends to be a little bit more around like sabotaging the customer service exchange, right? Like, if you need to be if one example that I found that I was really interested in was hospitals and health care because I think they also suffer from a lot of the same broader issues around like, you know, vocational law and you know, pink collar gendered professions. And so I felt that was like a nice comparison. But there are a lot of people who are in health care who can very much sabotage your experience of that entire process and you there have been a lot of like literature and studies about how that is directed frequently like at people who are in need or who are trying to navigate that system from the outside. That I found interesting, because I don’t know that there’s a lot of that necessarily in libraries. So the thing that I was really struck by was in what the articles that we cite, and the has kind of been part of this process is just pulled it up. So I have the citation. correct for this. Alyssa sent of Annie’s article, the dark history of hobby trusts, and it’s about the formation of the hottie trust initiative, the several years ago. Half of this article is very much around the you know, system design and the technical specifications and the needs for managing large amounts of digital data. And then the back half of this article is all of the political conversations that went on across mostly the big 10 consortium to get this project off the ground. And so they did. Like one of the quotes in there that I always go back to is, from one commenter in the article was that the library professional is really Catty, and tense and neck horizontal violence on each other. And I think that we can unpack a lot of like the gender implications of the phrase caddy, but I do think this concept of horizontal violence very much like rings true. I’ve very rarely seen in library organizations, sabotage and sabotaging behaviors directed patrons, but I very frequently do see it directed internally.

Erin: Before we maybe talk this exam, by the way before we talk about public and other kinds of institutions, I just want to add one thing. From my perspective, I haven’t worked in a public library since I was a teenager so I definitely can’t speak to that. But I have done some work in industry and like the research side of things is actually like time I know that maybe sounds a little bit weird but like the the tempo like the speed at which things happen. So like in academia in particular, like every train wreck is very slow moving and like if I have a friend who works in business, and they like, I’m interviewing for a job and then like a week later they have the job like, like, what what are you talking about? How does that work? How does that even happen? So I definitely sometimes think oh, sorry, I that’s a UVA alert for some sort of crisis that’s happening. But I definitely think about like the speed at which things happen, right and like things happen in industry a lot more quickly. Things happen in academia. Very slowly, like at a glacial pace, and I would say, within the library, potentially even more slowly than that. So it’s like it’s a lot easier to see these things be articulated when the sort of perceptual partisan takes so freakin long. Right? So like, I think that’s just the like, kind of like an aside, but I wanted to make sure it was introduced for the one one solution would be to quicken the work tempo. I mean, that would be I think, that would take a real overhaul in, in values and also like the idea of like, like Kate was saying, like being an egalitarian, being deliberative, like I think that would be really, really hard to do. And what’s more is that the people who have worked in kind of very hierarchical top down institutions like that often seems to be the ways things get done. But then that leads to another form of dissatisfaction where it’s like, well, things got done, but nobody was happy with it. Right.

Catharina: And Celia, you, did you want to add anything on this?

Celia: Sure. So I worked at a school library in Kazakhstan for two years with some international experience at University Libraries abroad and then now I’m working in a museum that’s part of a government and I’m working in an archive. So it’s some tangentially related areas. And if I look across all of these experiences, I think in each one there was a process of learning not just with a formal organization chart was but who actually held the power and it’s very different within a given type of libraries, but also across libraries or organizations. And learning, who tended to have the power to push things ahead or slow things down as Aaron spoke to tempo. And that would vary who had the power of input so in public libraries, your board or your community may have a lot more power than in a school library or in a university library. And so I think if you’re trying to move ahead, good things and speak truth to power when you see negative things come along, being able to read those dynamics and then decide what your own ethics are and kind of work humanely there is, is pretty important. I don’t know that I have super specific advice except to just talk around meet peers and learn how organization organizational dynamics work in your type of library.

Ray: Yeah, I certainly think that there is a saying, particularly, maybe it’s more in North America, but a saying where in academia, everything is a big deal, because the stakes are so small. And it’s sort of like this tension where you know, there’s a lot of power plays and you know, sort of discussions being had a visibly or invisibly. And I think that also true to certain extent for to all types of libraries sort of like experiencing that because, you know, we all have a certain interest in promoting the work and activities, but it’s also like, there’s some conflict internally or the values are not as aligned so yeah, there’s a whole bunch of really interesting points that all of you are raising here. So I thought I wanted to share that before we move on to our next readers question, which is the Dohee or Dohe role mission framework. Give some good good tips right for addressing sabotage on an individual level. However, it is said that a toxic dysfunctional environment cannot be changed by a single person. So how can organizations plagued by sabotage work collectively to overcome and change organizational culture, especially for minoritized staff or staff from underrepresented groups?

Erin: It’s your name Kate. I don’t know if you need to speak to it. But I will say that anecdotally the fact that those of us who are all at the organization in question a vote departed may be a kind of indication, but there’s, like even a small critical mass of people can really do a whole heck of a lot, particularly when you’re without the institutional power. But, Kate, we gave it we gave it your name, or you gave it your name.

Kate: Oh, yeah, I know exactly how that happened, which was I was being cute. You know, it’s so like, I’m in the Washington DC metro region and like you can’t you throw a stone in a direction without hitting somebody that has like top secret clearance out here. Right. So I’m being like, cutesy about our headers right and using legs signals intelligence or like operations and like this is your mission, you know, playing off this like kind of espionage idea. And then our book editor came back and said, I really liked this role mission framework, and it’s like, great, I guess we’re committed now. So it is Dohe. I went from having a mu before I got married a name that nobody could spell that everybody can pronounce to having a name that everybody could spell, but no one could pronounce so it’s fine. We, as far as Yeah, like one thing that I think all of us were very careful about in putting together the book chapter and in talking about like, what are these action tips is not making it come across as like, alright, here you go. This is your responsibility to fix sudo because there’s a lot of like, I think really problematic advice that tends to be pushed towards like personal responsibility type. rhetoric, and we really want to steer very far away from that. Yeah, to Aaron’s point, you we, those of us that did work at the same institution have moved on to like other roles, and I think that, you know, it is extremely common, and I’m thinking now in terms of like, wherever we’re calling like this great resignation moment. I do think that many people got to the point of just departing from jobs that were no longer serving them or that had been toxic for a long time. You I also keep thinking quite a bit about Anne Helen Peterson’s keynote to the CALM library Conference, which we don’t cite in our chapter necessarily, and I could provide that link if people are interested in that For show notes or what have you. If you have not read that, but like I remember being quite struck by your job has gotten harder and it’s okay. To acknowledge that it has gotten harder in the last few years. And here are some of the reasons why I found that to be really quite empathetic. And really understanding of like, this is a system that you’re caught up in that does not necessarily like making it your responsibility to have to figure out how to like deal with your own feelings of burnout or frustration or what have you. When it comes to organizations that are plagued by sabotage, you know, one of the big things that I do think about often and the advice that I tend to give particularly if I lecture over at our universities, I school with up and coming aspirational librarians is to be very intentional about the interview process because I do firmly believe that like the best way that you as an individual can avoid being in a sabotage organization is to ask very savvy interview questions right and to not join those organizations. And I know that that is real scary when you may not have anything lined up and feel like you have to take a job and you’ve got the loans and you’ve got the pressure and you’ve got the like people around you who are going on to various what seemed like very exciting careers. But if you are interviewing somewhere, and it seems bad, if the vibe check is poor, don’t feel like you have to take that or that you have to subject yourself to that sort of culture. It is so much harder once you’re inside an organization to be able to like affect or survive any sort of like sabotage experience, and it is, I think, corrosive to the soul sometimes to stay in it. When it comes to like the organization’s trying to fix themselves I’ll defer to some of my other colleagues who have like I think maybe more knowledge around like collective organizing right and mutual aid networks, but those would be the two things that come to mind for me as just ways to navigate it. But I don’t think that change is always like that aspiration. I think it’s sometimes just protection.

Erin: I will say again, just total sidebar here but I have withdrawn from job searches as a candidate from my car, because the vibe check was off like I’ve like done like a one or two or three day interview. And then just been like, you know, this is not for me and like, you know, I have a job. I’m really lucky that I’ve been able to do that historically in the past but like genuinely if like you can’t be somewhere for six hours with fit like causing your skin to crawl. You don’t have to take that job like Go Go Temp somewhere and like polish your resume or like do a volunteer project because like once you were in that organization like organizational culture affects individuals like we get sort of sick from extremity by it. Right and like you have to kind of unlearn a lot of really nasty behavior and also I think the way it sort of changes you like the way you have to work like if you’re constantly going into work in like a sort of defensive mode or you’re going into work and kind of like expecting antagonism. Like you’re not going to do good work and you’re probably not gonna get a lot out of it other than like, yeah, I lasted you know, six months longer than the previous person at this position like you know, and you can definitely see too if you’re reading job ads and some places keep keep coming up like that might also be indicative.

Kate: You one thing that I’ll just chime in towards that, you know, like it’s trauma right when you leave a toxic and difficult work place, right, I remember for quite some time leaving a toxic workplace where there were certain tasks that were just not allowed at that organization and I would do them in my in new position. And I would have a lot of that like you adrenaline response, right? Like actual fear and then I’m like, no, no, this is an email. It does not merit like this level of toxicity, but it was like the amount of time that it took me to like unpack and process and I think the several of us have had the experiences of needing to like, unpack and process it the you know, again, just really trauma I think of working in very challenging workplaces has been something that you kind of need to consider as a part of that too is it can cost you even after you’ve departed that position.

Celia: One other thing I would acknowledge here is that the four of us who wrote this and we were very aware of this and how we were crafting this come from a majority ethnic group in our country. We have a lot of education, a lot of autonomy, great professional jobs. And so we’ve had a fair amount of power to speak up and speak back. And we’re certainly aware that many of our colleagues within libraries broadly, don’t always have that same amount of leverage that we have. And I would point to work that my colleagues have done, especially my colleagues, Natalia Estrada, and Bonita Dyess, who are librarians who started out as library staff and while they were staff were writing about the impacts. There’s an article called viewed as equal to the impacts of library organizational cultures and management on library staff morale, and when that project was developed, it was really essential to have staff at the table, not just librarians writing about staff. And so I think, you know, when we’re thinking as managers are we thinking as librarians about how we can improve our organization without asking staff to do more unpaid labor, making sure that they’re actually able to help make decisions and craft strategy for the organization can be very important.

Ray: Great, thank you, Celia, and maybe Maura if you have any last thoughts you want to add.

Maura: Sorry, I can’t unmute here. Um, I mean, I don’t have a ton like, I really take like Kate’s point about trauma after leaving a very toxic environment. I personally have always found it helpful to read Ask a Manager, which is a internet advice column that’s not about libraries, but it’s about other workplaces. But it does give you a sense of like, what’s normal at other places, and what’s deeply, deeply wrong at other places. And, I mean, I would just, you know, I don’t think there’s anything wrong either with if you’re in a situation and you can’t get out if you’re in a situation you have to stay in a toxic job, due to you know, commitment, other family commitments, or, you know, those sorts of things. Just checking out the doing the quiet quitting do only doing what you have to do. And and, like this is very difficult for me to say and I work on it in therapy, but like, just doing the basics of your job and not going above and beyond. And just sort of saying that that’s okay. And I will say to like, my workplace unionized during the pandemic, we have faculty status, but we’re not like tenure line faculty, like as, as all librarians with faculty status and seems right. But I hadn’t been here for super long when that effort started. And but I know that it was done because folks were unhappy with the way things were faculty status wasn’t providing certain sorts of protection and benefits. And there are some like staff unionization efforts also ongoing and no one does that right. Because they’re like, this is a great workplace necessarily. So my experience here has been more or less fine i But I also came from an extremely toxic environment. So it’s sometimes a little bit hard to sort of figure out like, what actually is going on? Yeah, that was a lot of blather. And I’m sorry,

Erin: It’s not a bother at all. And I will actually, like, maybe contrary to everyone’s advice, I don’t know it was like to actually advocate for self care and like, generally speaking, particularly if the toxicity is localized in like an individual or something like that, like that’s like if that person Bobby Chu, like go to yoga class when you know they’re gonna be doing something or like take your work elsewhere or like a you know, declined being on a committee with them or whatever, and like, do do things that like, you know, will sort of temper that because like, those people who are outliers can be like, really, really triggering and then it gives you a much like, more stable place I think maybe to like then deal with this. The smaller minor inconveniences of work. Life, but yeah, like more or less a reading asking manager where you’re just like, Oh, okay. I mean, it’s not like, it’s not always great. Sometimes just like, wow, that’s really messed up. But basically, you know, when she’ll be like, well, this is not normal. You’re like, okay, great, like I’m not gaslighting myself anymore about like, what, you know, I should just be able to endure this situation because this is clearly like I said, an untenable situation, but yeah, quite quitting. Do your job. Maybe if you can divest a little bit from it in terms of identity. I think that’s can be really good and do stuff if someone someone gets on your nerves really badly.

Ray: Yeah, thanks so much for those advice. Erin, Maura, Celia, and Kate really appreciate you all just making time and sharing your insights and diving into some of our questions from readers. And I just want to hold space and also asked if Catharine if you have any final thoughts

Catharina: I really have enjoyed listen to to you. And it is such an important topic and toxic workplaces. is really, really difficult to handle as an individual, but also as a group. And it’s a lot within the structure and it is a lot within the culture. And we can all make a difference but we really have to do it together. And don’t blame yourself. It’s usually within the structure. Thank you very much.

Ray: Thank you, Catharina. And thank you so much to all of our listeners. Be sure to check out the previous podcasts conversations with Spencer and Fran talking about similar issues that we were just raising here. And with that, enjoy the rest of your day.

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 3, Episode 5: Spencer Acadia and Fran Holyoke

Colleagues, we are excited to announce the our next episode (for season 3) of the CPDWL Podcast Project where we feature library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work.

See here for the podcast: https://spotifyanchor-web.app.link/e/gJeRJVcz2xb

Our guests are Spencer Acadia and Fran Holyoke. The topic is on toxic libraries.

Spencer Acadia holds a PhD in sociology, an MA in psychology, and an MLS. Spencer is an assistant professor in the Research Methods and Information Science department at the University of Denver in Denver, Colorado. Spencer teaches social science research methods to library school students, as well as courses in library management, collection development, and international library research and practice. A part of Spencer’s ongoing research investigates LIS dysfunction, including library workplaces, education, and the profession. Prior to becoming a full-time professor, Spencer worked in academic libraries for over ten years. Find Spencer online at https://spenceracadia.com and via Twitter at @s_acadia.

Francesca Holyoke is now retired from a 30 plus years career in principally, academic libraries and archives. In addition to government and public libraries, Francesca has worked in nearly every library department including cataloguing and reference, she has done consulting and delivered children’s services, ranging from a library assistant to a branch and department head in both the Sciences and the Arts. Throughout her academic career she was heavily involved with the local faculty association and the national organization the Canadian Association of University Teachers. She continues some of her union work along with archival appraisals.

Transcript Below:

Ray: Hi, this is Raymond Pun, a standing committee member of IFLA CPDWL Section. Welcome to the IFLA CPDWL Podcast Project. In this space, we talk with library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work. Today’s guests are Dr. Spencer Acadia, chair of the Knowledge Management Section and Francesca Holyoke, a now retired librarian/archivist at the University of New Brunswick and former faculty association president and grievance officer. We’ll be talking about toxic and dysfunctional libraries and what that means for library workers. Welcome Spencer and Fran.

Fran: Thank you.

Spencer: Thank you. It’s good to be here.

Ray: Now we’re really excited to have you both here to talk about this one topic. And first, let’s define what a toxic or dysfunctional workplaces so according to what I’ve seen on the websites, many, many websites trying to define this these terms it is an any work environment where the people and or work itself can create dysfunction or violation to your well being, particularly your health. And I want to ask by starting with you, Fran, is there anything else you’d like to add to that definition?

Fran: I’m assuming that when you say particularly your health that you’re encompassing mental, physical and spiritual health in the broadest possible terms.

Ray: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah. That’s a holistic consideration of different types of health and sensor. Anything else you want to add?

Spencer: Sure, I think there’s a few points that could be added here. I would say first that I don’t. I do think it’s important to make clear that it doesn’t necessarily have to be health related. For example, if you are unhappy at your job or dissatisfied with the work that you’re doing, that dissatisfaction and unhappiness can still happen without it necessarily being detrimental to your health. I also think it’s important to say that dysfunction in a library can happen to without any direct effect on you at all. And an example of that might be something like corruption that’s happening in administration. Right? It’s something that’s happening sort of secretly something that you have no idea is going on, but yet is still dysfunctional is still maybe impacting the organization but not necessarily you directly. And then lastly, on this point, I’ll say that it’s that I think it’s important to recognize that it’s not just the people at work, right, your co workers that you work with, or necessarily the work itself, but also the larger workplace, right? It literally that environment that you’re working in, or the organization. And the reason I think that this is important to mention, is because there’s a lot of emphasis, Ray. And you know this because you’ve looked at some of the literature’s and the websites, there’s a lot of emphasis on the individual. Right, and that emphasis on an individual is what is common, less so though the systems within which they work. And so I just think it’s also important to recognize that, yes, there is an individual component to the definition, but for me, I think it’s also important to recognize sort of the larger social and organizational component as well.

Ray: Yeah, thank you, Spencer, for that context there. Very true that it could be a violation of one’s ethics values and norms, not necessarily, like directly impacting health, but also looking at it from you shared about individual and system. So we’re going to get into that. And so, you know, pivoting to this other question that we have here for you, it’s about your new book, Spencer, “libraries as dysfunctional organizations and workplaces.” So congratulations on having this new book out.

Spencer: Well, thank you that will be coming up very shortly.

Ray: Yeah. And in this new book, authors from the United States and Canada discuss workplace dysfunction in North American Library contexts, and you put here quote, “the new book seeks to expand the geography of dysfunction related to Library Information Sciences and libraries. The editor seek proposals which chapters will events discourse on assumption libraries, as well as workplaces and within LIS as a discipline and profession for European and Australian libraries. Every context proposals concerning the New Zealand libraries will be considered.” So how did you come up with this book and you have highlights from what you want to share?

Spencer: Sure, there’s a few things that I can say about this. So first, into that description that you’d mentioned, just in the there’s actually two separate projects going on there. So there is the book that you mentioned, that’s titled, “Libraries has dysfunctional organizations and workplaces.” That’s the book that will be coming out. Very shortly. It’s being published by Routledge. And that book focuses on US and Canada. All the authors are from the United States and Canada, and they’re all talking about US and Canadian context. The other project though, going on is the follow up book, and that’s where the European and Australian context come into play. I’m looking to put together a follow up book to this book that’s about to come out. That sort of takes the very similar conversations happening in North America on this topic, and looking to see what our European colleagues and our Australian colleagues are experiencing or not as the case may be, but with the book that is about to come out. I will say a few things about that. So the idea for that book, first came from my own experiences working in academic libraries. I worked in academic libraries for a little over 10 years. And I worked in several different libraries, and they were all I found them to be dysfunctional in their own ways. They all had all these different libraries. There were issues that were problems, some similar, some different, but because I saw these several different libraries that I worked at, right, so all of the real life and practical library experience I had was working in libraries that were problematic that were dysfunctional. And so that led me to think that perhaps there was something wrong with me, right that, I somehow was the problem. I was the issue. I was really internalizing this. But secondly, I later became aware of various social media accounts, blogs, articles and so on, from folks across North America that seemingly we’re experiencing the same things. And so with these two things combined, I began realizing, well, it isn’t just me, the problem is lying within me, because it can’t be if there are folks all around the countries in the US and Canada who are also expressing some of these very same things and so on where the book came along, was first, like I just mentioned, I mentioned social media accounts. There was one particular social media account, LIS grievances. It’s a Twitter account, that you may or may not be familiar with, but it was started by Tim Ribaric at Brock University in Ontario. And that Twitter account, sort of was was really instrumental in this recognition that, that I wasn’t alone in experiencing these issues. And then also in 2017, there was a book that was published called “The Dysfunctional library.” And it was a book by Jo Henry and colleagues, and ala published it, and that was published at the end of 2017. I was really quite amazed that he published that book, by the way that ALA would want to publish, you know, a title that recognized that, “hey, libraries are dysfunctional, and there’s problems that we’re having in libraries, but they did.” And so following those inspirations, I conceive of this book as a way really to begin asserting that there needs that there are indeed shared experiences here. And that is a really important point. And it’s important through this book, and through the work of others that we recognize the dysfunction that is happening in libraries, we recognize that it’s there and we acknowledge that it’s there. And then through recognizing it and acknowledging that we can subsequently begin to address it. And the last thing I’ll say here, we’re going to highlights that you mentioned is really so there’s 14 chapters in this book. The book has a website, you can Google the title, maybe, Ray you can provide the link, maybe somewhere on the website. or whatnot. But you can Google the title, find the website and look at the table of contents. There’s 14 total chapters. I do want to say that one of the authors of the chapter of a chapter in the book is actually Tim Ribaric, who created the LIS grievances Twitter that I just mentioned, he contributed a chapter talking about the LIS grievances account. I also co authored a chapter in the book with a colleague in Montreal, and we were looking at memes as a way through which library users or excuse me, library workers experiencing dysfunction are able to express that dysfunction. And so we analyze the memes and that really turned out to be a really interesting study. And then lastly, I’ll say I did write an introduction to the book not just to set up the chapters, but also and this is the really important part for me. The purpose of that introductory chapter is to also pick apart the problems with viewing library dysfunction only as an individual problem. And I really argue the point that it’s important to look at the library dysfunction phenomenon as one that’s also social and organizational.

Ray: Yeah, it’s really interesting that you mentioned that earliest grievances on Twitter Yeah, I am familiar with it. And for those listening who are not familiar with it, is a program where you where users can submit anonymous comments and then it would generate generated push it out to the followers and anyone who’s looking at the issues that people experiencing and share anonymously. And so it definitely will dive into more. Some of the points that you’re sharing there, Spencer, it’s very fascinating to hear I’ve already thinking about, especially when you’re talking about like, initially not fitting in or feeling like there’s all these problems coming and I think there’s this this notion that I hear a lot of other folks have shared with me over the years. It’s like the self gaslighting thinking, “oh my gosh, it’s something maybe wrong with me. I’m not getting it” but actually there’s something really problematic with the systems and it’s sort of rolling over time. And with that being said, I wanted to also ask you here, so I connected with Fran through Jeanne Bail, who is an IFLA section member of the management and marketing section connected us and I really wanted to highlight or get Fran’s take on some of these issues and topics. And so from your experiences, what are your thoughts about toxic and dysfunctional libraries as well as what Spencer had shared?

Fran: Sure, thank you and I think, perhaps start with something that that Spencer has shared and first is that I have worked with Tim Ribaric. And in fact, he became the chair of a committee that I chair at one point, which is the Canadian Association of University teachers, librarians and archivists committee, and it is certainly a forum whereby you hear a lot of what’s going on in academic libraries. And like Spencer, my work experience is largely from academic libraries. What may not have been said quite so explicitly is at least in the Canadian context, academic libraries are highly unionized because of the presence of Faculty Associations pretty well across the country. So with respect to the library work sector, the Canadian academic library is probably among the most highly unionized. That doesn’t mean that problems get resolved quickly or easily. But it’s just a fact to note. I will mention too, or refer back to Spencer’s comment about maybe you were the odd one out or you know, you felt maybe you weren’t seeing things properly. That certainly had been my experience. And among the first instances that I felt that I had been in a community of people that share concerns and perspectives about what was going on more provocative environment was the first time I went to a CAUT librarians conference. And then I heard people speaking the same language about how it is you might approach services or collections or outreach or all that sort of thing. And that’s only been been reinforced both through my years of continuing to work both in the library and the archives of the University Library, and simultaneously being involved with the Faculty Association. So that’ll kind of lace itself to my comments, and I find that being questioned at any point. I should mention, too, that I’ve also been aware of dysfunction in some federal library archives in institutions. And that’s certainly a point we could come back to later, in broad brushstrokes. They’re deeply damaging to the people working there, which is, I think, sadly ironic, given that libraries are the most part of public service organizations looking to help people provide support. And yet you hear as you do on the Twitter feed that you mentioned, I’ve certainly been aware of it through participation. In national bodies, and within my own faculty association, that there doesn’t seem to be the support for the people within. So part of it is that if only the consideration conveyed outwards, were the case looking in the experiences consulted demoralize people that those affected but will retrenched from work that in most cases they genuinely love and they will cease to care about doing their best. They might rightly choose to leave that environment. And that may be in part what either the bully or the system is in fact trying to do. One of the things that you hear happening frequently throughout libraries is all this reorganization and certainly there are times when it’s important, proper appropriate to reorganize, but how often is it a way of putting in place a mechanism that shoves people out the door as as as it were? These kinds of work sites, work environments, stifle the creativity of those that are in the organization and it potentially hampers what the organization can can do. And what it does is stop people from working together when they might otherwise be quite willing to do so. There’s a culture of fear there’s a cultural silencing, and people often won’t admit to one another until things have gone fairly well off the rails that something doesn’t seem right here. Again, as a broad statement, the toxicity seems in many cases to derive from up on upper and middle managers doing what they are instructed or believe they are instructed to do by the levels above them that their intent on a kind of a top down approach, without think taking to heart or remember that part of their job is to honestly represent and protect those who worked for or under them. That’s certainly an understanding that’s shared, I would say through a lot of academic libraries in Canada, is that some of that is is driven by corporatization where you are moving to have more business approach to things and the other can be elements of that that are appropriate. But in general, for public service. I think that that doesn’t work and with that, again, it’s a it’s a common refrain that neoliberalism has has accelerated those kinds of effects. Some broad brushstrokes that that would be my experience, and a final comment, is that having been a grievance officer, I’ve found that librarians are loath to grieve. They just don’t seem to want to take that step. Even though you can point to things that are arguably grievable or certainly problematic, they seldom want to take that final step.

Ray: So why is that? Why why do they sell them take that final step? Is it because they don’t want to critique their colleagues or criticize or is it something that is you know, like a personality driven approach?

Fran: I think it’s certainly both of those that they they don’t want to critique colleagues. They don’t want to appear to be tearing people down. You’re coming from a work environment where you work in many instances as a team and so to critique that to to bring forward problems with that. I think a lot of librarians and archivists are are concerned that that it will make their colleagues look bad. I think a bigger piece of it is a fear that they feel as if the odds are stacked against them. That people don’t quite know how to thread their way through that sort of thing. And tend to believe that that as Spencer was was mentioning earlier, that it’s that it’s their problem. And it’s something that they’ve done wrong. And so they question whether or not they’ve taken all the steps that they could take so that by the time they come forward with something, it’s become quite complicated and messy, and there’s often a fairly long timeframe that makes it difficult to pick through a grievance process because in most situations, whether you’re grieving formally under a collective agreement, or under some kind of general institutional policy, there are timeframes, time limits that that can impinge upon that process.

Ray: Oh, yeah, that is very true. And I’ve seen maybe were on social media graphics of the infographic kind of thing where people are compelled to read the complaint, like there’s nowhere to or no consequences.

Fran: Yup

Ray: So and with that being said, I, it runs up to this other question that we have, which is thinking about the strategies and advice that you can share with our listeners with you might be our listeners might be experiencing toxic or dysfunctional or business alignment. Right now. So what are some ways to mitigate or to really address it as they’re working on and can’t necessarily lead or find another position? Spencer?

Spencer: Thank you, right. So this is actually quite a difficult question to answer.

Fran: Agree

Spencer: And Fran agrees, yeah. So but I do think there’s a few things that can be said here. So first, I want to say that I am a big believer, I always have been in self care. Whatever that means for you, as an individual self care can mean a lot of different things for different people. But whatever it is that helps you get through the day, get through the week. Right? Whatever it is, that helps you make it through that helps you cope, then I’m a big believer in doing those things. It is important to take care of ourselves and quite a bit of existing literature both in lis and in other fields like business management, psychology, so on has a lot of different recommendations about things that individuals can do to help them cope. That said, I think at the same time we have a conversation about the importance of engaging in self care. I think it’s also important to have a parallel discussion that self care does not solve the main issues. It does not solve the problems of library dysfunction. If the library is dysfunctional, and whether we’re talking about the library as a whole, whether we’re talking about certain sections of a library or certain departments, self care and taking care of yourself will not change those aspects because they’re larger than the individual they occur outside of you. So the question for me really is how then do you make change at the socio organizational level? And that’s really what’s hard to answer because a lot of that type of change when we start talking about making changes beyond the individual level, but now we’re focused on social and organizational levels. A lot of that type of change within libraries, starts at the administrative management and leadership levels, because it’s the administration it’s the leadership that sort of creates the tone for the organization, right, that sets the culture that sort of gives ideas about what is acceptable and unacceptable. So that’s often within libraries, where that change has to begin happening. But we know that libraries are notorious for for if I can be honest, and Frank, libraries are notorious for not having very good leaders. And we know this from existing LIS literature that that there does seem to be a bit of a leadership and management crisis in libraries. So what this ultimately means is that then we’re relying basically on poor managers and poor leadership to make meaningful and effective change that they’re really unequipped to do in the first place. Now with that said, I do think it’s important for me to end with this by saying that the problem though like I just mentioned, about poor management and poor leadership, the problem is not always with an individual manager. Right? It very well may be the case that Sure, there could be a manager or leader who really is just really bad at their job. No matter how much training they have, no matter how much experience they have, they just aren’t a good manager or they are not a good leader. That does happen. But I think it’s more so the case that there are plenty of librarians that probably would make really good leaders, they would make really good managers. So I think then the subsequent question that we had asked is our library schools, training future librarians then to be good leaders, and to be good managers to know how to handle these situations of library dysfunction in libraries and know how to address it know how to create that positive culture, those positive mindsets. This is not a question that I am going to answer, or even pretend to answer in this discussion. But I do think that that is the root question that has to be asked. So in some, I’ll say my strategy. My advice for individual folks in libraries who are working in dysfunctional environments, do what you can, whatever it takes to engage in self care, that is an important conversation to have. But like I said, it’s also to have that parallel conversation that even though you are taking care of yourself, that doesn’t mean unfortunately, that the larger problems and issues are, they’re likely not going to go away. I know that probably sounds very depressing.

Ray: Fran, how about you?

Fran: Sure and Spencer, thank you for taking the larger organizational or system wide view of it. I’m going to come down at perhaps individual or I would suggest group level. And that derives in part from my experience, longtime experience in academic libraries, but also from grievance work. And how you deal with complaints. Are some of the real nitty gritty nuts and bolts pieces of it or are that when you go to meetings, if there are things that bother you, or particular if you’re in a one on one meeting, make notes, record contemporaneous notes. If you’re in a situation where you can’t take notes at that at that point. If it’s a situation in which there is someone who’s meeting, meeting and taking notes, where you haven’t taken notes, you repeat in writing what it is you think you heard, and you send that message to the person who chaired the meeting or who was with you in that one on one meeting. And you might close the message with a line saying something of you know, I understood this properly. If not, I’d be happy to be corrected you know, please tell me what I do didn’t get get right, but it does a couple of things. And one it gives the person a chance to explain if maybe something was misunderstood, but it begins to create a record and it is important to keep a record. If you get called into meetings, and you’re uncomfortable about don’t go on your own, take somebody with you take a calling with you. Ask what the agenda will be before you go into any meeting and that’s whether or not it’s a one on one. That’s whether or not it’s a committee it’s whether it’s a larger body like a Library Council or library board. You have a right to know what that meeting is about. Because you’re being asked to participate in it. If you look, for example, at the way in which you set up this this podcast, right you let us know what this conversation was going to be about. That’s the way in which people can participate and be part of something and contribute meaningfully and not knowing that in advance is really a professional discourtesy. I would say if you can’t avoid having a meeting sprung on you, you know, I want you to come to my office in 20 minutes. So you know, we need to have a discussion about this and in 45 minutes, part of that haste, whether or not it’s the deliberate intention of shadowing something on such notice is in fact to put the person who’s being asked to go into that meeting off balance, putting them at a disadvantage before things even begin. So refuse them out. Now’s not a good time. Can you tell me what it is? It’s about, I’ve got some time tomorrow. It’s such and such, but don’t let yourself be pushed into that. And sometimes people will agree to do that because they want to appear as if they’re helping. They’re helping to solve the problem. They want to be amenable. They do want to come across as as a positive, team player. Talk to others. And this can be tricky, because when you get into a dysfunctional system, the trust level is going to be very, very low. You don’t know who’s talking to whom. But if there is a cohort of people with whom there seems to be some sympathy, it’s worthwhile talking to that group. And in cases where I have seen change in leadership and change in an organization, is because a group of people got together to do something and record their concerns, but they didn’t do that individually in any way. So and then coming from a union perspective, I would say, talk to your union. You may find that your concerns connect up with others and they can help with that. So that’s a little bit more of a finely grained response to that.

Ray: Yeah, those are great advice, Fran. It’s very helpful to apply in the day to day work. We often do in libraries with meetings and planning things and then just having a record of it totally agree. I also appreciate sensors framing of the question itself, and then trying to not set the boundaries and recognizing that it doesn’t necessarily change the workplace, but at least for the individual to sort of find some way to separate one’s situation right from personal life. And now with that being said, I know there’s been a lot of discussion on this topic, particularly since COVID-19. And it’s something that has really accelerated some of the issues that we’re talking about, and or maybe really exacerbated right? And so, I want to ask, what are your thoughts on the pandemic, and how’s it made work difficult, or maybe just some changes that you’re seeing and maybe we’ll start with Fran?

Fran: Sure, I think the pandemic has isolated people in and broken apart communities of interest, which is a real challenge for people in the workforce, and particularly in the workforce, like libraries, where people do work together and feed things from from one unit to another feed a query from one person to another. And I think that that’s made things very challenging. And about a shift in how people might approach their work has also potentially ended a sense of accomplishment from one’s work. You’re getting different sorts of feedback. And so you think it’s harder to figure out whether or not you’re on the right track or whether or not you’ve done the right thing. And I think people have really struggled to maintain their their peer networks. conferences have been delivered in in different ways and interest groups meet in different ways. And no, you don’t necessarily have to get to get together face to face on a regular basis. But there is something in that conviviality, which is important. And the pandemic has flattened or squelched all of that, at least in what I’ve seen.

Ray: Right? And even for a conference like the World Library Information Congress, IFLA, it was canceled in 2020, 21 was virtuals, which went to it was in person but like a lot of people still couldn’t attend and yeah, those meetings really could re energize folks right after being in these difficult situations but also like it’s hard, because then we can’t actually make make that take over take advantage of the opportunity because of the common situation and it’s still with us. And well, what are your thoughts, Spencer?

Spencer: Well, first I want to thank Fran for those comments. I absolutely wholeheartedly agree that I think that there are folks working in libraries and archives, another LIS environments worldwide, really, that do experience this feeling of isolation, that do feel that their accomplishments have been upended, and that are struggling sort of to maintain their existing peer networks and create new networks. So I just want to thank Fran for sharing those perspectives. I think I want to talk about this in terms of part of the book that’s coming out that we talked about earlier, one of the chapters in this book I co authored, and it’s about bullying in the library workplace. And one of the things that we address in that chapter and through that study is, or one of the things that we wanted to look at was not just the bullying in libraries, but also we wanted to add in the topic of COVID and the pandemic into that study. And so we did a survey and we received over 500 responses from this survey that went out across various parts of the of the United States. And so one of the survey questions asked if respondents believed COVID had any impact on their bullying experience for those that said that they had experienced bullying. And one of the main findings from that study and as written in the chapter is that among those respondents who said that they had been bullied at work, that when for many folks, the shift happened from working in libraries to working from home for those respondents that were able to work from home, that that shift did not necessarily decrease bullying exposure for them. Because as many of those respondents said that behavior that bullying behavior that happened in person in libraries in the workplace before COVID moved online, it was probably already happening by email. But now we have zoom and other online tools that allow that has allowed people working from home to interact with each other. And so that bullying experience didn’t necessarily decrease. I just sort of moved away from being in person to to the online environment. And another finding was that there were a number of respondents that reported in fact being bullied for following CDC protocols. When library workers went back to working face to face in libraries that when this happened, there were there were workers that you know, wanted to follow the CDC protocols by engaging in activities like social distancing, for example, right wearing masks and so on, but experienced being bullied for wanting to do that, perhaps from other workers who perhaps didn’t agree with the CDC protocols. They didn’t think social distancing matter. They didn’t think wearing masks did anything. And so in this sort of behavior, and so so yeah, I just I think that for this particular question, I wanted to talk about it in terms of that particular study that again, just to recap, bullying, when it was happening in person for the pandemic, it sort of shifted and just really moved online. And that there were respondents that said, even whenever we return back to work, we still got bullied for wanting to sort of follow the protocols of the CDC and there were not many people that reported the onset of bullying during the pandemic. There were some who said that, that during pandemic, the bullying behavior began, but for many people it was already in place it was already happening. It just moved even more so online when the pandemic happened.

Ray: So is this also part of this other project that I get seen in your website? “Libraries are horrible places to work in: qualitative analysis of workplace bullying” and can you tell us more about that?

Spencer: That’s a good question. Thanks for asking. It’s it’s a part of the same project. But the the article or the project that you just mentioned, libraries are horrible places to work. Interesting title that actually is a direct quote from one of the anonymous respondents to the survey that I was just talking about. They answered one of the open ended questions by saying libraries are horrible places to work. But that project, that’s the working title of a an article that I’m working on using that same dataset, but that article is going to exclusively be a qualitative analysis, using that full dataset of over 500 surveys that we got back, pulling out only the open ended responses, and doing a thorough qualitative analysis of that material.

Ray: Oh, that sounds really great in terms of the process, and thank you for giving us a preview of what that project will entail. It’ll be a scholarly article. That’s the plan. Yes. And Fran. We have a question for you here of how do you process your experiences as a former faculty association president, how do you encourage others to serve in such a role that might be dealing with difficult and toxic situations?

Fran: In an academic setting, the experience of being involved with the Faculty Association on the executives, we’re doing grievance work during the negotiations, that’s permitted the building a very strong relationships with those in the professorial stream unless you get out of the library silo. It’s been useful for having about Congress having conversations about what academic librarians or archivists can do, how they can be integrated into the teaching and research of the institution in the ways that we’re been able to follow those through really invigorate, academic librarianship and in a significant way, it’s afforded an opportunity to work with and deal sometimes with shared purpose. And sometimes in conflict with senior university officials. You do wind up talking to the president of the university and you do wind up talking to the vice presidents. You do end up in situations where you learn something about the Board of Governors and what kinds of pressures that puts on administration. You learn a lot about the university writ large, certainly with respect to financial matters, and as I mentioned to the Board of Governors there can be a measure of protection and that there are colleagues will have your back. It gives you a chance to talk about something that’s going on in the library and say with somebody in the professorial stream and ask the question, you know, just to seem off to you, am I am I reading this right? And getting an outside perspective that that can help figure out what it is you might do. You will learn and see things that will ever change your view of the institution and the kinds of people in administrative positions. And when I get asked by people whether or not they should get involved with the Faculty Association, I encourage them to do so you can start on a committee you don’t need to go immediately to the executive. But there will be things that once you see and hear them, you can never remove them from your consciousness. And it lets you see the or you see the institution in a very different way. So I certainly do encourage people I have done so we will continue to do so. An interesting, it’s often difficult in toxic situations that bring people in there, they’re looking for help.

Ray: It wasn’t really great points. Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts here. Now we are coming into our last question here, which is, are there any other points that you’d like to share with our listeners? Let’s have Spencer first.

Spencer: Sure. Thank you so not, not really I don’t other than I hope that for those listeners who do decide to check out the work that I’m doing in the in this particular area. Starting of course with this book that is getting ready to come out. If you do happen to get a hold of it. You know whether you get a copy yourself or through the library, interlibrary loan, whatever, and you read it, I would welcome you discussion and conversations and comments. Through Twitter. I am on Twitter. You can look me up there. And so I just wanted to put that invitation out for all the listeners and politically those that get a hold in some way or another the book to do some of the reading. If you have comments about it and and want to have discussions about the content, feel free to reach out to me and also many of the authors in the book are also on Twitter as well and so hopefully, there can be some additional future conversations that happen around this room or topic.

Ray: Great, Fran?

Fran: I guess the comments that that I would share at this point would be Spencer. It’s really interesting to see that your work is coming out now. I guess. Having been involved in the area for over 30 years. It’s about time. So I look forward to seeing where your research leads. And I’d be very interested in the kinds of reaction you get to the work that you’re doing. Well done.

Spencer: Well, thank you, Fran. I really appreciate it that.

Ray : I’m happy to say during our conversation so for our listeners, we’re recording this on Zoom our cameras off my job has dropped dropped a few times listening to the so insightful conversations and thoughts are shared because it’s it’s still like oh my gosh, like wow, I didn’t think about that. And so I really really want to thank Fran and Spencer for such an awesome conversation on a really difficult and complicated topic. And it sounds like what Fran shared earlier like it’s an opportunity for us to really talk about this. And so we’re gonna wrap up this conversation and again, just a note, CPDWL is pleased to be partnering with the IFLA management and marketing group on facilitating this topic. So in addition to this podcast discussion, you’ll see more conversations on this important topic later. Thank you all for listening.

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 3, Episode 4: Albina S. Krymskaya (in Russian/Русский)

Colleagues, we are excited to announce the our fourth episode of the CPDWL Podcast Project (Season 3) where we feature library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work. This episode is in Russian.

To see the episode: https://anchor.fm/ifla-cpdwl/episodes/S3E4-Albina-Krymskaya–PhD-and-Daria-Beliakova-in-Russian-e1cu5mo

Our host is CPDWL SC member Daria Beliakova and this episode’s guest is Albina S. Krymskaya.

Daria Beliakova

Albina Krymskaya, PhD in Pedagogic Sciences, Associate Professor of the Mediology and Literature Department of the St. Petersburg State Institute of Culture, Russia.

Member of the Standing Committee of IFLA Section on Education and Training
Secretary, IFLA Section on Education and Training (2019–2021)
Secretary, IFLA Division of Support of the Profession (2019–2021)
Chair, IFLA Section on Education and Training (2021–2023)
Member of the editorial boards of the international magazines “Libri” and “Digital Libraries Perspectives”

Academic background

Specialist degree, Library Science, St. Petersburg State University of Culture, 1999
PhD, Library Science, St. Petersburg State University of Culture, 2005 (dissertation title “Knowledge Management Technologies in Biobibliographic studies”

Professional background: current place of work and position, recent projects

I began working at the St. Petersburg State University of Culture in 2011 in the Department for Continuing Education. I organized professional courses and summer schools for students and adults. I also initiated some courses for librarians, developing programs together with St. Petersburg libraries of different types.

Since 2014 I have held a dual position, as a lecturer and as a deputy dean, in the Library and Information Science (LIS) Department. Within the educational section “Information analysis in book publishing, the arts and business” I teach three courses: “Analysis of professional information”, “Information resources in social and humanitarian sciences”, and “Using information analysis to avert crises in book publishing, the arts, and business”. As deputy dean, I am responsible for developing programs for the LIS Department.

At the University I also organize seminars on library and information issues for librarians from around Saint Petersburg and other areas of Russia. The International Summer Library School, which I initiated and organized in 2014 in cooperation with the University of Maryland and the Russian Academy of Sciences Library with the financial support of the United States Consulate General in St. Petersburg, was a great success. More than 60 library specialists and students from Russia, the United States, and Kazakhstan participated.

Since 2015 I’ve been the chief organizer and coordinator of BiblioFest, an annual library festival sponsored by my university. BiblioFest promotes interest in libraries and reading to students and to the public through seminars, master classes, lectures, exhibits, performances, and other events. Among my key responsibilities are preparing annual festival plans; maintaining relationships with libraries, publishers, bookshops, and cultural centers etc.; motivating and assisting students to develop and implement program ideas; working closely with university departments to carry out festival plans. Festival speakers include writers, researchers, and directors of publishing organizations, libraries et al.

In 2016, I initiated student study tours for LIS students of my university.

In 2017, I was nominated by the US Department of State to participate in the International Visitor Leadership Program “American Libraries”.

My most important professional achievements within the last 5 years

Among my significant professional achievements within the last 5 years, I would highlight those connected with developing international activities and cooperation of the Library and Information Science Department of the St. Petersburg State University of Culture.

In 2016–2019, I organized four study tours for LIS students (two to Germany and two to the Baltic Region countries). The two tours to Germany were funded by the DAAD (Deutscher Akademischer Austauschdienst). These study trips, a first experience for the LIS Department, featured professional visits to libraries and universities.
In 2017, I was elected as a Russian member of the Education and Training Section of the International Federation of Library Associations and Institutions (IFLA). By becoming a member of the IFLA Education and Training Section, I was able to expand our university’s international relations with LIS specialists worldwide.
Since 2018 I’ve been a member of the BSLISE Working Group.
In 2018, I launched a training program in our department titled “International Activity in Libraries” to enrich students’ knowledge about international librarianship and new trends in library and information science. During its initial year twelve students enrolled in this program and received valuable training.
At IFLA WLIC 2019 I was elected as a Secretary of IFLA Section of Education and Training and a Secretary of IFLA Division of Support of the Profession.
At IFLA WLIC 2021 I was elected as a Chair of IFLA Section of Education and Training.
Early 2021, I proposed a project “A Webinar Series for LIS Students” for IFLA Division IV professional units. During a year the Division held six webinars (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo9R8g3vwtNgv2k4rNUzjOA).

Additional information

I have published more than 130 works on topics such as the international cooperation of the LIS Department, international relations in the fields of education and culture, knowledge management, bibliography, and the international history of information science. These publications include a bibliography on Knowledge Management (2009) and a monograph (2014) about American exchange students’ educational experience in St. Petersburg.

A short list of my publications in Russian is at https://spbgik.ru/team/krymskaya_albina_samiulovna/

Альбина Самиуловна Крымская

Кандидат педагогических наук, доцент кафедры медиалогии и литературы Санкт-Петербургского государственного института культуры

Председатель Секции ИФЛА по образованию и подготовке кадров

Секретарь Отдела ИФЛА «Поддержка профессии»

Член редколлегий международных журналов “Libri” и “Digital Libraries Perspectives”

Образование:

В 1999 г. окончила Санкт-Петербургский университет культуры и искусств (ныне СПбГИК) по специальности: библиотековедение и библиография, квалификация: библиотекарь-библиограф общего чтения. Дипломная работа на тему: «Информационный анализ кризисных ситуаций в фирмах» (научный руководитель: Гордукалова Галина Феофановна, доктор педагогических наук, профессор).
В 2005 г. защитила кандидатскую диссертацию «Персональная библиография в технологиях менеджмента знаний». Научный руководитель: Гордукалова Галина Феофановна, доктор педагогических наук, профессор. Официальные оппоненты: Гиляревский Руджеро Сергеевич, доктор филологических наук, профессор, заведующий отделением научных исследований по проблемам информатики ВИНИТИ Российской академии наук; Леонов Валерий Павлович, доктор педагогических наук, профессор, директор Библиотеки Российской академии наук.

Профессиональный опыт

2014 – н. в. – заместитель декана библиотечно-информационного факультета, доцент кафедры медиалогии и литературы СПбГИК.

Читаемые курсы: «Аналитические технологии», «Отраслевые информационные ресурсы: Социальные науки», «Информационное предупреждение кризисных ситуаций».

2011 – 2014 гг. – специалист по учебно-методической работе, Центр дополнительного профессионального образования Санкт-Петербургского государственного института культуры, организация курсов повышения квалификации и летних школ для специалистов учреждений культуры

Наиболее значимые проекты на факультете:

В 2014 г. инициировала и организовала Международную Летнюю библиотечную школу, в которой приняли участие более 60 специалистов и студентов из России, Казахстана и США. Проект реализован в сотрудничестве с Библиотекой Российской академии наук и Университетом Мэриленда (США) при финансовой поддержке Генерального консульства США в Санкт-Петербурге.

С 2015 г. занимается организацией ежегодного Международного фестиваля «БиблиоФест».

В 2016 г. инициировала и организовала первую образовательную поездку студентов в Германию.

В 2017 г. была участником Международной лидерской программы «Американские библиотеки».

Наиболее значимые достижения за последние пять лет

С 2014 г. активно развивает международную деятельность на библиотечно-информационном факультете.

В 2016–2019 гг. организовала четыре образовательных поездки для студентов библиотечно-информационного факультета (Германия, страны Балтии).
В 2017 г. была избрана членом Секции ИФЛА по образованию и подготовке кадров.
С 2018 г. – член Рабочей группы ИФЛА «Формирование сильной системы библиотечно-информационного образования» (Building strong library and information science education).
В 2018 г. разработала и реализовала дополнительную образовательную программу «Международная библиотечно-информационная деятельность».
В 2019 г. была избрана секретарем Секции ИФЛА по образованию и подготовке кадров и секретарем Отдела ИФЛА «Поддержка профессии».
В 2021 г. избрана председателем Секции ИФЛА по образованию и подготовке кадров.
В 2021 г. предложила проект «Серия вебинаров для студентов библиотечно-информационной специальности» для секций Отдела IV «Поддержка профессии». В течение года состоялось шесть вебинаров (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo9R8g3vwtNgv2k4rNUzjOA).

Дополнительная информация

Опубликовала более 130 работ по таким темам, как международное сотрудничество библиотечно-информационного факультета, международные связи в области образования и культуры, управление знаниями, история развития информатики за рубежом, информационное обеспечение специалистов в области социально-экономических и гуманитарных наук. Среди них аннотированный библиографический указатель «Управление знаниями» (2009) и монография «Становление института американских стажеров в Санкт-Петербурге» (2014).

Краткий перечень работ представлен на сайте СПбГИК: https://spbgik.ru/team/krymskaya_albina_samiulovna/

***

Transcription:

00:00 Дарья:

Добрый день, дорогие коллеги и наши многочисленные друзья!
Сегодня мы предложим вам второе интервью из “Русской серии” подкаста Секции ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте. Цель подкаста – знакомство с библиотечными специалистами мира. Для обеспечения принципа культурного разнообразия и баланса использования официальных языков ИФЛА секция приняла решения записывать интервью не только на английском языке.

Наш гость – Альбина Самиуловна Крымская. Здравствуйте, Альбина!

00:37 Альбина: Добрый день, Дарья!
00:40 Я: Альбина Самиуловна Крымская, кандидат педагогических наук, доцент кафедры медиалогии и литературы Санкт-Петербургского государственного института культуры, заместитель декана библиотечно-информационного факультета. В 1999 г. окончила Санкт-Петербургский университет культуры и искусств по специальности: библиотековедение и библиография. Тема дипломной работы “Информационный анализ кризисных ситуаций в фирмах”. В 2005 г. защитила кандидатскую диссертацию на тему «Персональная библиография в технологиях менеджмента знаний». С тех пор Альбина Самиуловна опубликовала более 130 работ по таким темам, как международное сотрудничество библиотечно-информационного факультета, международные связи в области образования и культуры, управление знаниями, история развития информатики за рубежом, информационное обеспечение специалистов в области социально-экономических и гуманитарных наук. Активно развивает на факультете международную деятельность. В 2017 г. была избрана членом Секции ИФЛА по образованию и подготовке кадров, в 2019 году стала секретарем Секции, а в 2021 году её председателем. Член редколлегий международных журналов “Libri” и “Digital Libraries Perspectives”

02:00 Дарья: Итак, мы к переходим к традиционным вопросам. Альбина, опишите, пожалуйста, себя одним словом. If you had to describe yourself using only one word, what would word would it be?

02:10 Альбина: Сначала я хотела бы поблагодарить Вас, Дарья, за приглашение принять участие в проекте Секции по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте. Я слежу сама за появлением новых подкастов и рекомендую своим студентам их прослушивать, чтобы быть в курсе всего нового, что происходит в непрерывном образовании, как можно приобретать дополнительные профессиональные навыки сегодня, в том числе международные компетенции.

Довольно трудно описать себя одним словом. Наверное, это «аналитик». С этим связана моя профессиональная деятельность, в том числе и темы моей дипломной работы и диссертации. Насколько себя помню, я всегда была склонна к анализу людей, взаимоотношений, слов, информации, различных ситуаций… Можно было бы добавить ещё «генератор идей», поскольку я постоянно предлагаю различные идеи своим коллегам и студентам. И, наверное, ещё «перфекционист». Это моё стремление довести всё до совершенства.

03:55 Дарья: Итак, аналитик – генератор идей – перфекционист. По-моему, очень верный Ваш портрет!

04:03 Альбина: Спасибо!

04:07 Дарья: Что побудило Вас стать преподавателем библиотечных дисциплин? С чего Вы начали?

04:14 Альбина: Наверное, путь в библиотечную профессию начался с образования. Ни для кого не секрет, что в мире не так много людей, которые мечтают стать библиотекарями. Я поступила на Библиотечный факультет в 1995 году, поскольку здесь была возможность изучать два иностранных языка. В то время я мечтала выучить несколько иностранных языков и стать полиглотом. Я выбрала английский и немецкий языки. Но постепенно я втянулась в саму библиотечно-информационную специальность. Профессиональный интерес начал проявляться на третьем курсе, когда нас вовлекли в проект по исследованию российско-итальянских культурных связей. Это предполагало работу с поиском источников информации, нам приходилось просматривать большое количество публикаций, которые были в библиотеках.

К самой профессии преподавателя мой путь был долгим, через работу в коммерческих организациях и государственных учреждениях. Спустя 10 лет после получения высшего образования я начала работать в Институте культуры, сначала в Центре дополнительного образования, параллельно являясь преподавателем-почасовиком. С 2014 года я работаю на Библиотечном факультете в должности заместителя декана. Сегодня я этому очень рада.

07:18 Дарья: Спасибо. Когда я зачитывала Вашу краткую профессиональную биографию, то упомянула о том, что активно развиваете на факультете международную деятельность. Расскажите нам об этом подробнее. Что значит для Вас международная библиотечная деятельность? Изменилось ли Ваше видение с годами работы?

07:45 Альбина: Мой интерес к международной деятельности стал проявляться ещё в школьные годы, когда я интенсивно изучала английский язык. И я благодарна своей маме, которая дала мне возможность заниматься этим так досконально. Также меня интересовала литература, посвященная международным связям, дипломатии. Это заложило некий фундамент. Через несколько лет после окончания института и защиты кандидатской диссертации, которая была связана с изучением зарубежных источников информации, я стала заниматься темой советско-американских научных обменов. Я до сих пор продолжаю интересоваться этой темой, слежу за новой литературой, продолжаю общаться с бывшими американскими стажерами. Мне удалось собрать их воспоминания об опыте пребывания в Советском Союзе и, позже, в России. С этого началась моя профессиональная международная деятельность, с попытки изучить этот период нашей совместной истории. В 2014 году мне удалось опубликовать монографию «Становление института американских стажеров в Санкт-Петербурге». Это стало моим личным вкладом в развитие международной деятельности Библиотечного факультета СПбГИК, которая развивалась ещё в советские времена. После этого по моей инициативе была организована Международная летняя библиотечная школа. Она была организована совместно с Библиотекой Российской академии наук и Университетом Мериленда. Это был очень интересный опыт. В настоящее время пандемия не позволяет проводить подобные школы, мы надеемся, что в будущем нам удастся к этому вернуться. После этого мы начали очень активно вовлекать в международную деятельность студентов. Я считаю, что это очень важно и для них и для факультета в целом.

Я считаю, что международная деятельность дает нам больше возможностей общаться друг с другом в независимости от границ и географии, позволяет устанавливать новые контакты и изучать другие культуры. Хотелось бы вспомнить слова нашего известного библиотековеда Валерия Павловича Леонова, который ещё в 1992 году на аналогичный вопрос ответил, что не существует отдельно российской или американской библиотечной деятельности, а есть единая наука, она без границ и позволяет решать нам вопросы, которые непосильны политикам. Та самая народная дипломатия, «мягкая сила».

12:28 Дарья: В этом году у нас появился ещё один повод для гордости. Мы Вас поздравляли с избранием на пост председателя Секции ИФЛА по образованию и подготовке кадров. Как вы попали в Секцию?

13:00 Альбина: Спасибо большое за этот вопрос. За то, что попала в Секцию, я благодарна Валентине Владимировне, которая сама была членом этой секции с 2013 по 2017 гг. и рекомендовала меня в ее Постоянный комитет. К этому моменту мною уже был реализован ряд проектов, связанных с международной деятельностью. И я благодарна Российской библиотечной ассоциации, которая поддержала выдвижение моей кандидатуры на второй срок.

14:00 Дарья: Мы уточним, что речь идет о Валентине Владимировне Брежневой, декане Библиотечно-информационного факультета Санкт-Петербургского института культуры. Альбина, поделитесь своим ярким воспоминанием об ИФЛА: о конгрессе, о Вашей работе в секции.

14:15 Самое яркое воспоминание это участие в моем первом конгрессе ИФЛА в 2017 году, который проходил в Польше, в городе Вроцлав. На открытии конгрессе я испытала непередаваемые чувства. Студентам первого курса всегда рассказывают об этой организации, но в 1995 году я себе и представить не могла, что когда-то окажусь там.

15:10 Дарья: Спасибо! Следующий вопрос действительно для аналитика: что Вам больше всего нравится в профессии?

15:20 Альбина: В моей профессии мне нравится возможность творчески мыслить, генерировать идеи, воплощать их. Главное мне нравится учить студентов, передавать им знания. Вдохновлять, мотивировать их, чтобы они развивались в этой профессии. Я очень радуюсь, когда вижу, как они растут, как складывается их профессиональная жизнь.

16:00 Дарья: Безусловно, не только библиотекари, но и преподаватели нуждаются в постоянном совершенствовании своих профессиональных компетенций. Каков Ваш лайфхак в профессиональном непрерывном образовании, которым Вы хотели бы поделиться?

16:15: Альбина: Я думаю, это то, чему я учу студентов с самого первого курса. Это бережное и деликатное отношений к окружающим. Как говорится: «Береги честь смолоду, а профессиональную особенно». И быть благодарным своим учителям.

17:13: Дарья: Спасибо! Поделитесь тем, что у Вас сейчас происходит, над каким замечательным проектом Вы сейчас работаете?

17:23. Альбина: Один из проектов, который продолжает реализовываться в этом году, это серия вебинаров для студентов библиотечно-информационных специальностей. Серию инициировала Секция по образованию и подготовке кадров. Этот проект был предложен Подразделению ИФЛА № 4 «Поддержка профессии». В этом году нам удалось провести 6 вебинаров, чему я несказанно рада. Это возможность вовлечь студентов разных стран в профессию и в международную деятельность. Основываясь на отзывах студентах, которые принимали участие в проекте, и слушателей вебинаров, я бы оценила его как успешный. Сегодня задача состоит в том, чтобы привлечь к нему коллег из других секций ИФЛА, расширить тематику обсуждений. В марте 2022 года мы организуем следующий вебинар. Тему для него предложила наша американская коллега Лойда Гарсиа Фебо, экс-председатель Американской библиотечной ассоциации, председатель Группы по целям устойчивого развития 2030. Вебинар будет посвящен вопросам адвокации библиотек.

20:00 Дарья: Это очень интересно! Мы желаем Вам успехов, поддерживаем и радуемся за вас!

20:17 Альбина: Большое спасибо. Хочу дополнить, что у нас есть предложение к Секции ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте, – совместно провести один из вебинаров.

20:28 Дарья: Здорово! Это прекрасные новые возможности для всех нас. Я предлагаю пригласить к участию в вебинаре молодых специалистов. Тогда мы охватим обе аудитории, и между студентами и молодыми специалистами получится полезный обмен опытом. Альбина, а если представить, что Ваш профессиональный путь сложился как-то по-другому, то какой еще профессией кроме преподавателя Вы хотели бы овладеть?

20:47 Альбина: Это очень сложно себе представить (смеется)! Сегодня библиотечно-информационная профессия дает широчайшие возможности для саморазвития и изучения других сфер жизни. И это очень ценно в нашей профессии. И мы обогащаем нашу профессию, используя знания из других сфер. Я думаю, если была возможность поучиться и получить второе высшее образование, я бы выбрала международные отношения. Меня очень интересует эта тема. В рамках дисциплины «Отраслевые информационные ресурсы» я затрагиваю ресурсы из сферы мировой политики и международных взаимоотношений. Есть много такого, что мне хотелось бы изучить. Жалко, что не на все хватает времени (смеется)!

22:02 Дарья: Спасибо. И в заключение наш специальный вопрос: Ваше кредо?!
22:26 Альбина: Сложно (улыбается). Наверное, «Учиться и не останавливаться на достигнутом»

22:35 Дарья: Прекрасное кредо! Большое спасибо, Альбина Самиуловна за нашу сегодняшнюю беседу!
Дорогие друзья, продолжение следует, ожидайте новый выпуск “Русской серии” нашего подкаста в ближайшее время!
Беседу вела Дарья Белякова, член ПК Секции ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте, руководитель Центра библиотековедения и профессионального взаимодействия Библиотеки иностранной литературы, Москва.

22:53 Альбина: Спасибо большое, Дарья!

***

Translation:

00:00 Daria:

Hello, dear colleagues and friends,

Welcome to the podcast project started by the IFLA Continuous Professional Development and Workplace Learning (CPDWL) Section and devoted to library and information professionals from all over the world. The Section agreed to record interviews also in languages other than English to promote cultural diversity and to ensure the balance in the use of the official IFLA languages.

Today we present our second interview in the Russian-language series of the podcast.

Our guest is Albina S. Krymskaya. Welcome, Albina!

00:37 Albina:

Hello, Daria!

00:40 Daria:

Albina Samiulovna Krymskaya, PhD in Educational Science, Associate Professor, Department of Medialogy and Literature, Saint Petersburg State Institute of Culture; Deputy Dean, Faculty of Library and Information. In 1999, Albina graduated from St. Petersburg University of Culture and Arts, specializing in Library Science and Bibliography, with the senior thesis, “Information Analysis of Crisis Situations in Firms”. In 2005, she defended her PhD dissertation, «Personal Bibliography in Knowledge Management Technologies». Since then, Albina has published more than 130 papers on topics such as the international cooperation at the Faculty of Library and Information, international relations in the field of education and culture, knowledge management, history of computer science development abroad, information services for social, economic and human sciences specialists. Albina actively promotes international activities at the Faculty. In 2017, she joined the IFLA Education and Training Section. In 2019, Albina became Secretary of this Section and in 2021 – its Chair. She is a member of the editorial boards of the international journals, “Libri” and “Digital Libraries Perspectives”.

02:00 Daria:

Now we are moving on to our traditional questions. If you had to describe yourself using only one word, what would this word be?

02:10 Albina:

First, I would like to thank you, Daria, for your invitation to participate in this CPDWL project. I keep track of new podcasts and encourage my students to listen to them to keep abreast of new developments in continuous education and to find out how additional skills can be acquired today, including international competencies.

It is rather hard to describe oneself in one word. Perhaps, it’s “analyst”. My professional activities, including my senior thesis and dissertation, are related to this. As far as I can remember, I’ve always been committed to analyzing people, relationships, words, information, situations… As I constantly offer various ideas to my colleagues and students, I think I could describe myself as «generator of ideas» as well. And in addition, “perfectionist”. It’s my desire to bring all things I do to perfection.

03:55 Daria:

So, analyst – generator of ideas – perfectionist. I would call this a very faithful portrait of yours.

04:03 Albina:

Thank you!

04:07 Daria:

What compelled you to become a librarian? How did you get started?

04:14 Albina:

My path to the library profession began with the education. It’s an open secret that there aren’t too many people in the world who want to become librarian. I entered the Library Faculty in 1995 because it gave me an opportunity to study two foreign languages. At that time, I dreamed of learning several foreign languages and becoming a polyglot. I chose English and German. But gradually I was getting involved in the LIS specialty. I started taking interest in the profession in the third year when we engaged in a project exploring the Russian-Italian cultural ties. This included working with sources of information, browsing through a large number of publications in libraries.

My journey to the teaching career was long – through jobs in business and state institutions. Ten years after graduation I started working at the Institute of Culture: at first, I worked at the Center for Continuing Education and as a part-time teacher. Since 2014, I have been working at the Library Faculty as Deputy Dean. I’m very happy about this.

07:18 Daria:

Thank you! Albina, in your CV you mentioned your taking part in the international activities at the Faculty. Could you please dwell on it? What does international librarianship mean to you? Has your vision changed over the years?

07:45 Albina:

My interest in international activities arose while I was intensely learning English at school. I’m grateful to my mom for letting me do this so in-depth. I was also interested in literature on international relations, diplomacy. These books laid down a kind of groundwork. A few years after the graduation from the Institute and the defense of the dissertation, which was linked to the study of foreign information sources, I began to develop insight into the Soviet-American scientific exchanges. I’m still interested in this subject, keeping up with the new literature, continuing to talk to the former American interns. I managed to collect their memories of the stay in the Soviet Union and later in Russia. So, my international career began with an attempt to study this period of our common history. In 2014, I managed to publish the monograph «The Development of the Institution of American Interns in Saint Petersburg». This was my personal contribution to the development of the international activities at the Library Faculty of the Saint Petersburg State Institute of Culture, which date back to the Soviet era. This was followed by the International Summer Library School. It was organized on my initiative and set up jointly with the Library of the Russian Academy of Sciences and the University of Maryland. It was a very interesting experience. Currently, the pandemic does not permit such schools. But we hope to be able to run such schools again in the future. After our first summer school, we started to encourage students to actively engage in international activities. I think it’s very important for them and for the Faculty.

I believe that international activities give us more opportunities to interact with each other, regardless of borders and geography, making it possible to establish new contacts and explore other cultures. I would like to cite the words of our renowned librarian Valery Pavlovich Leonov, who, back in 1992, answered a similar question, saying that there are no separate Russian or American library activities, but a single borderless science, which allows us to address issues that are beyond the capacity of policymakers. It is public diplomacy, or «soft power».

12:28 Daria:

This year we have had another cause for being proud. We have already congratulated you on your election as Chair of the IFLA Education and Training Section. How did you get involved with this Section and why this Section?

13:00 Albina:

Thank you very much for this question. I joined the Section thanks to Valentina Vladimirovna, SC member in 2013 – 2017, who supported my candidacy to the Standing Committee. By then, I had already implemented a number of projects related to international activities. I am grateful to the Russian Library Association for lending support to my candidacy for the second term.

14:00 Daria:

To make it clear I need to add that we are talking about Valentina Vladimirovna Brezhneva, Dean of the Library and Information Faculty, Saint Petersburg Institute of Culture. Albina, please, share with us your most special memorable moment you have about IFLA WLIC or the Education and Training Section.

14:15 Albina:

WLIC–2017 in Wroclaw (Poland), my first IFLA Congress, is by far the most memorable event for me. At the opening of the Congress, I had an indescribable feeling. Our first-year students are always told about this organization, but in 1995 I could hardly imagine that I would ever attend it myself.

15:10 Daria:

Thank you! The next question is really for analyst: What are you most excited about in the profession?

15:20 Albina:

In my profession, I like creative thinking, generating ideas and implementing them. The point is, I like to teach students, impart knowledge to them, inspire and motivate them to develop in the profession. I’m very excited to see them grow up, advance their career.

16:10 Daria:

Of course, not only librarians, but also teachers need to continually improve their professional competencies. What’s a professional development tip or advice that you’d like to share with others?

16:15: Albina:

I keep telling my students since their first year to be thoughtful and sensitive to others. As the saying goes, “Look after your reputation, in particular, your professional one from your young years.” And be grateful to your teachers.

17:13: Daria:

Thank you! Can you tell us a bit about your work at the moment, what’s an exciting project you are working on now?

17:23: Albina:

A series of webinars for LIS students is one of the projects which we continue to work on. The Education and Training Section initiated this series. The project was proposed to the IFLA Division IV “Support of the Profession”. This year we managed to run six webinars, which I’m very happy about. It is an opportunity to engage students from different countries in the profession and in the international activities. Based on the feedback from the students who took part in the project and the webinar viewers, I would rate the project as success. The challenge today is to engage colleagues from other IFLA sections and to broaden the scope of the discussions. In March 2022, we’re organizing the next webinar, which will focus on library advocacy. This topic was suggested by Loida Garcia-Febo, Chair of U.N. 2030 Sustainable Development Goals Task Force and ex-Chair of American Library Association (USA).

20:00 Daria:

This is very interesting! We wish you success and are very proud of you!

20:17 Albina:

Thank you! May I add that we have a proposal for the CPDWL Section to co-host one of the webinars.

20:28 Daria:

Great! These are great new opportunities for all of us. I suggest we invite young professionals to participate in the webinar. This will help us reach both audiences – students and young professionals and have them exchange experiences. Albina, tell us please whether there was any other profession, other than librarianship, that you would have wished to obtain?

20:47 Albina:

It’s quite hard to imagine (laughing)! Today, the library and information profession offer vast opportunities for self-development and research into the other spheres of life. It’s very valuable in our profession. We enrich our profession by using the knowledge from other fields. I think if I could study and earn a second degree, I would choose to major in international relations. I’m very interested in this subject. While doing research into the topic “Industry Information Resources”, I’ve come close to issues from the realm of world politics and international relations. There’s a lot I’d like to study. I wish I had more time (laughing)!

22:022 Daria:

Thank you! And by way of conclusion, our special question: What would be your favorite moto or creed?

22:26 Albina:

Difficult to answer (smiling). Perhaps, “Learn and never give up”.

22:35 Daria:

Wonderful creed! Thank you so much, Albina, for the interview!
Dear friends, the Russian-language series of the CPDWL podcast is to be continued. We’ll be back with a new issue in the near future!
Our today’s guest, Albina Krymskaya, was interviewed by Daria Beliakova, SC Member of the IFLA CPDWL Section and Head of the Center for Library Science and Professional Cooperation, Library for Foreign Literature in Moscow.

23:53 Albina:

Thanks a lot, Daria!

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 3, Episode 3: Svetlana A. Gorokhova and Daria Beliakova (in Russian/Русский)

Colleagues, we are excited to announce the our third episode of the CPDWL Podcast Project (Season 3) where we feature library and information professionals who support and participate in professional development work. This episode is in Russian.

To see the episode: https://anchor.fm/ifla-cpdwl/episodes/S3E3-Svetlana-A–Gorokhova-and-Daria-Beliakova-in-Russian-e1bbjue

Our guest is Svetlana A. Gorokhova and host is Daria Beliakova.

Svetlana A. Gorokhova is an international library expert and specialist in cross-cultural library project activities. The beginning of Svetlana’s career goes back to 1989 when she started her work at the Margarita I. Rudomino All-Russia State Library for Foreign Literature (LFL), a federal institution of culture specializing in foreign language literatures and providing expert knowledge of cultures of the world. Svetlana steadily advanced her career, starting from a librarian and working her way up to the position of LFL Director for International Activities. She was elected member of the Russian Library Association (RLA) Governing Board and the chair of the RLA Section for International Activities. Svetlana launched and co-chaired the Russian-American Library Dialogue. She was one of the co-authors and active participants in a number of international projects to ensure the free exchange of best professional practices between libraries of the world. Since 1994, Svetlana has worked to further Russian libraries’ engagement in the IFLA activities. In 2009 – 2017, Svetlana Gorokhova was a Standing Committee (SC) member of the IFLA Library Services to Multicultural Populations Section and, in 2017 – 2021, she served as a SC member of the CPDWL Section. Currently, Svetlana combines work in two libraries: the Library for Foreign Literature in Moscow and the V. Mayakovsky Central City Library in Saint-Petersburg. Svetlana has developed insight into such issues as libraries’ international activities, comprehensive international programs for professional development, interaction between library and user, as well as the role of the library field in implementing the UN SDGs.

Светлана Анатольевна Горохова, международный библиотечный деятель, специалист по кросс-культурной проектной деятельности библиотек. Пришла в профессию в 1989 году, поступив на работу во Всероссийскую государственную библиотеку иностранной литературы им. М. И. Рудомино – федеральное учреждение культуры, специализирующееся на работе с литературой на иностранных языках и предоставлении экспертного знания о культурах мира. В своей профессиональной карьере Светлана прошла путь от рядового сотрудника читального зала до директора по международной деятельности. Является членом Правления Российской библиотечной ассоциации, Председателем Секции РБА по международной деятельности. Инициатор создания и сопредседатель Российско-Американского библиотечного диалога, автор и содержательный участник многочисленных международных проектов, цель которых – обеспечить свободный обмен лучшими профессиональными практиками библиотек мира. С 1994 года – активный организатор участия российских библиотек в работе ИФЛА. С 2009 по 2017 год являлась членом ПК секции ИФЛА по библиотечному обслуживанию поликультурного населения, с 2017 по 2021 год – членом ПК секции по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте. В настоящее время сочетает работу в БИЛ им. М.И. Рудомино и в Центральной городской публичной библиотеке им. В.В.Маяковского (Санкт-Петербург). Особое внимание в своей работе Светлана уделяет вопросам международной деятельности библиотек, комплексным международным программам профессионального развития, взаимодействию библиотек с пользователями, роли библиотек в достижении Целей устойчивого развития ООН.

Daria Beliakova

Transcript and translation are below. Transcribed/Translated by Svetlana A. Gorokhova and Daria Beliakova

00:01 Дарья: Добрый день, дорогие коллеги и друзья!

Секция ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте начинает новую серию своего подкаста, интервью с выдающимися личностями библиотечного дела. Мы начинаем серию интервью с российскими специалистами. Она будет проходить на русском языке, и в том числе для нашей русскоязычной аудитории, для нашего российского библиотечного сообщества, плюс она будет переведена на английский язык и будет доступна для всего мирового библиотечного сообщества именно для того, чтобы познакомить с самыми последними достижениями российских библиотек и библиотечных ассоциаций. Сегодня мы представляем Вам нашего первого спикера, нашего гостя, это Светлана Анатольевна Горохова.

01:02 Дарья: Светлана Анатольевна Горохова, международный библиотечный деятель, специалист по кросс-культурной проектной деятельности библиотек. Пришла в профессию в 1989 году, поступив на работу во Всероссийскую государственную библиотеку иностранной литературы им. М. И. Рудомино – федеральное учреждение культуры, специализирующееся на работе с литературой на иностранных языках и предоставлении экспертного знания о культурах мира. В своей профессиональной карьере Светлана прошла путь от рядового сотрудника читального зала до директора по международной деятельности. Является членом Правления Российской библиотечной ассоциации, Председателем Секции РБА по международной деятельности. Инициатор создания и сопредседатель Российско- Американского библиотечного диалога, автор и содержательный участник многочисленных международных проектов, цель которых – обеспечить свободный обмен лучшими профессиональными практиками библиотек мира. С 1994 года – активный организатор участия российских библиотек в работе ИФЛА. С 2009 по 2017 год являлась членом ПК секции ИФЛА по библиотечному обслуживанию поликультурного населения, с 2017 по 2021 год – членом ПК секции по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте. В настоящее время сочетает работу в БИЛ им. М.И. Рудомино и в Центральной городской публичной библиотеке им. В.В.Маяковского (Санкт-Петербург). Особое внимание в своей работе Светлана уделяет вопросам международной деятельности библиотек, комплексным международным программам профессионального

развития, взаимодействию библиотек с пользователями, роли библиотек в достижении Целей устойчивого развития ООН.

03:02 Дарья: Здравствуйте, Светлана Анатольевна!

03:04 Светлана: Здравствуйте, Дарья Александровна! Спасибо огромное за то, что Вы пригласили меня принять участие в этом замечательном проекте. Очень здорово, что Секция ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте затеяла такой замечательный проект. И поскольку у ИФЛА семь официальных языков, мы также рады, что этот подкаст будет выходить не только на английском языке, но и на других языках ИФЛА. В том числе мы начинаем сейчас нашу серию на русском языке. Очень рада и с удовольствием отвечу на Ваши вопросы.

03:43 Дарья: Коротко представлю себя. Я Белякова Дарья, член Постоянного комитета Секция по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте, руководитель Центра библиотековедения и профессионального взаимодействия Библиотеки иностранной литературы. Мы начнем с постоянных вопросов, которые задают всем гостям нашего подкаста.

04:09 Дарья: Итак, вопрос первый. Светлана, опишите себя одним словом, если можно.

04:16 Светлана: Да, ну это такой сложный вопрос. Наверное, первое, что придет мне на ум, это слово «коммуникатор». Потому что я всё таки считаю себя таким мостиком между организациями, между людьми, между ассоциациями, проектами. И мне всегда это очень нравилось. Иногда мои коллеги считают даже, что меня немного… слишком много. (Смеётся). Но я считаю, что в этом деле переборщить невозможно, и всегда хорошо, когда есть человек, который рад связать какие-то части вместе. Поэтому я бы описала себя так.

04:53 Дарья: Спасибо! А что побудило Вас стать библиотекарем? С чего Вы начинали свою профессиональную деятельность?

05:00 Светлана: Это не очень педагогичный пример, поскольку я попала в библиотеку случайно. Заканчивала филологический педагогический факультет, пришла на последнем курсе подработать. Попала в элиту тогдашней Библиотеки иностранной литературы – в Справочно-библиографический отдел. 1989 год, пьянящий дух свободы, перестройки, ветер перемен, отличный коллектив, который объединял в себе гуру библиографии и молодых специалистов. В общем, мир книг и интеллектуально ненасытных людей затянул меня навсегда… Я прошла долгий путь от полевого консультанта в читальном зале. И за эти годы, планомерно продвигаясь вперед доросла до директора по международной деятельности библиотеки.

7:13 Дарья: Большая часть Вашего профессионального пути связана с международной библиотечной деятельностью. Что это значит для Вас? Изменилось ли Ваше видение с годами работы?

7:31 Светлана: Библиотека иностранной литературы – место по своей сути международное, авангард межкультурной коммуникации в любые годы. Поэтому международная библиотечная деятельность для меня – состояние и понятие естественное, неотрывное от моей профессиональной деятельности. Но если в начале моей карьеры это был скорее неуемный интерес к тому, что происходило вовне, за пресловутым железным занавесом, и абсолютный восторг от возможности увидеть другие подходы к библиотечному делу вообще, то сейчас это осознанная необходимость, понимание, что невозможно понять и осознать себя, не соотнеся свою деятельность с деятельностью других, с иным подходом и иной культурой. И сейчас у меня возникает такое чувство, что профессиональная международная деятельность требует серьезных усилий, работы по ее сохранению, развитию. Придания ей новых форм.

9:30 Дарья: Вы упомянули, что занимались программами профессионального обмена. Что привело Вас именно в Секцию по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте? Почему именно она?

9:47 Светлана: Это очень интересно: моя первая поездка на Всемирный библиотечный конгресс ИФЛА случилась в 1994 году. И с тех пор я ни на минуту не расставалась с этой замечательной профессиональной семьей. В течение 2х сроков я отработала членом ПК Секции ИФЛА по библиотечному обслуживанию поликультурного населения. За годы работы в ИФЛА ты неизбежно приобретаешь много друзей, и именно личные связи привели меня в Секцию ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте. Исполнительный директор Мортенсон центра международных библиотечных программ Иллинойского университета, Сьюзен Шнуер рекомендовала меня в Постоянный комитет, и я с удовольствием продолжила свою работу в ИФЛА уже в этом качестве. На тот момент мне было доверено руководство Академией Рудомино Библиотеки иностранной литературы, подразделением, которое занимается программами профессионального развития. На мой взгляд секция CPDWL – самая важная, потому что именно непрерывное образование – основа библиотечной деятельности, любого его аспекта. Это универсальное условие успеха любой библиотеки. Я очень рада, что я остаюсь в консультативном совете этой секции и продолжаю в меру сил и способностей в ней работать. И надеюсь ещё долго оставаться в её рядах!

12:10 Дарья: Светлана, могу Вас заверить, что члены секции тоже на это надеются! Поделитесь своим ярким воспоминанием об ИФЛА или CPDWL!

12:23Светлана: За мою почти 30-летнюю историю в ИФЛА таких моментов происходило со мной огромное множество. Помимо общения с коллегами в течение года, самым ярким моментом нашего воссоединения всегда были ежегодные Всемирные библиотечные конгрессы. Каждый раз – это просто незабываемый культурный опыт, знакомство с культурой страны, ее библиотечной системой. Это плодотворное, сконцентрированное и сосредоточенное общение не только с коллегами из-за рубежа, это еще и возможность тесного взаимодействия с членами национальной делегации, с ближайшими соседями из стран СНГ, например. Сформировались определенные традиции, в том числе, организация стенда РБА на выставке ИФЛА и проведение Русского вечера, где мы чествуем литературного юбиляра года. Вот одно из последних ярких воспоминаний – это Русский вечер в жарких Афинах. Когда к нам пришли представители почти от каждой национальной делегации и читали стихотворения Александра Сергеевича Пушкина на своих родных языках. Такие моменты объединяют и очень греют душу. Я надеюсь, что в следующем году нам удастся провести Русский вечер в Дублине и он будет посвящен замечательной поэтессе Серебряного века Марине Цветаевой, её юбилею. Вот такие мои воспоминания. Но прежде всего это, конечно, общение с людьми, человеческие связи.

14:23 Дарья: Спасибо, Светлана! Вы настолько вдохновленно рассказываете нам о своём профессиональном пути, чувствуется, что Вы счастливый человек! Скажите, а что Вам больше всего нравится в Вашей профессии?

14:42 Светлана: Каждый библиотекарь отвечает на этот вопрос по-разному. Я уже упоминала, что для меня очень важным является общение с людьми – пользователями, коллегами, партнерами. На своём профессиональном пути я встретила много интересных, выдающихся личностей. И это стало возможным именно благодаря моей работе в Библиотеке иностранной литературы. Я бы хотела отметить также возможность постоянного интеллектуального развития. А также креативность в профессии, то есть возможность придумывать самые невероятные проекты, и потом воплощать их на общее благо. Возможность сделать мир хоть немного понятней и лучше. Я очень благодарна судьбе, моим родителям, коллегам. Я считаю, что мы очень много сделали вместе и это греет мне душу (Улыбается).

16:28 Дарья: Каков Ваш лайфхак в профессиональном непрерывном образовании, которым Вы могли бы с нами поделиться? Как Вам удается идти в ногу со временем?

16:42 Светлана: (Смеется) Я бы хотела, чтобы мне удавалось идти в ногу со временем! Для себя я выработала некоторые правила: каждый день узнавать что то новое. Воспитать в себе привычку и ежедневно выделать время, чтобы заполнить те лакуны, которые ты видишь в своем образовании. Восполнять необходимые компетенции. В последнее время это касалось «выхода в цифру»: технических знаний, связанных с проведением онлайн-мероприятий и их трансляций. Я стараюсь записывать всё, где споткнулся на чем то, и потом сокращать этот список. Конечно, это такая цель, которой я еще не достигла, но я к этому стремлюсь! (Улыбается). К сожалению, это большая роскошь. У нас всех очень мало времени. Но существует такое мнение, что чем меньше ты спешишь, тем больше успеваешь. (Смеется). Еще очень важно быть открытым и на связи с коллегами. Часто мы не знаем, что происходит совсем рядом. Нужна общая база!!!

19:00 Дарья: Спасибо, мы попробуем взять на вооружение Ваш опыт. Иногда действительно, единственное время, когда можно читать что-то для саморазвития это поездка в метро! (Смеется). Светлана, расскажите нам, что у сейчас происходит в Вашей деятельности? Какие интересные проекты пришли в Вашу жизнь?

19:31 Светлана: Конкретно в данный момент я и мои коллеги работают над замечательным мероприятием, которое называется «Библиотеки. Глобальный контекст» и пройдет в онлайн формате 30 ноября. Это обсуждение на национальном уровне тех 20 тенденций развития библиотечного дела в мире, которые представила Президент ИФЛА г-жа Барбара Лизон в ходе своей президентской сессии на Конгрессе ИФЛА в августе этого года. Именно она впервые инициировала обсуждение этих тенденций. А теперь мы с коллегами предлагаем российскому библиотечному сообществу высказать своё профессиональное мнение. Мы организуем онлайн-голосование, в результате которого будут выбраны 5 тенденций, наиболее релевантных для библиотек России. Г-жа Лизон рассчитывает получить и сравнить профессиональные мнения по этому вопросу от специалистов из разных стран и использовать их в дальнейшем как основу для своей деятельности на посту Президента ИФЛА. Таким образом голос российского библиотечного сообщества будет в очередной раз хорошо услышан и учтен ИФЛА. И именно российское библиотечное сообщество становится тренд-сеттером для библиотек мира, выступая с новыми инициативами национальных обсуждений.

А через три недели у нас пройдет очередная встреча Российско-Американского библиотечного диалога, которая будет посвящена Целям устойчивого развития ООН и, в частности, вопросам работы библиотек по внедрению «зеленой повестки» – разумного потребления, ответственного отношения к себе и окружающей среде. Наша цель – запустить несколько совместных проектов библиотек Росси и США. Для этого мы создаем молодёжную рабочую группу, которая, мы надеемся, сможет быстро включиться в работу и предложить свои идеи. Вот такие у нас планы.

21:56 Дарья: Грандиозные планы! Мы с коллегами рады быть в Вашей команде! Мы надеемся, что к объявленным сейчас мероприятиям присоединятся наши российские коллеги! Светлан, расскажите, какой еще профессией кроме библиотекаря Вы хотели бы овладеть?

22:20 Светлана: Бариста и инициатор социокультурных проектов! Хочу на пенсии организовать небольшую кофейню «Страна советов» (кто жил в СССР, поймет игру слов), буду варить кофе и давать советы по социокультурному проектированию своим посетителям))).

23:20 Дарья: Опасаюсь, что до Вашего выхода на пенсию эту идею у Вас украдут! (Смеется).

23:26 Светлана: Здесь очень широкое поле деятельности и я не боюсь конкурентов! (Смеется). Всем хватит работы. Главное, чтобы это приносило пользу людям и удовольствие нам.

23:40 Дарья: Каков Ваш последний по времени профессиональный опыт, который Вас обогатил и развил профессионально?

24:19 Светлана: Мне так понравилась недавняя международная кейс-конференция «Новые культурные пространства в мегаполисе. Библиотека», которую мы организовали в честь открытия обновленного здания Центральной городской библиотеки имени Владимира Маяковского в Санкт-Петербурге! Кстати, этот проект завоевал в этом году звание лучшего строительного проекта Санкт-Петербурга и лучшего проекта по сохранению культурного наследия. Мы рассматривали вопросы открытия новых библиотечных пространств в мегаполисе. У нас выступали такие замечательные спикеры как Президент ИФЛА, директор городской библиотеки города Бремен Барбара Лизон (Германия) и директор городской библиотеки города Орхусс (Дания) Мари Остергард. Меня поразил рассказ о работе этих библиотек с местным сообществом. Об их клиенто-ориентированных сервисах. О профессиональном развитии персонала. Например, в городской библиотеке Орхусса специально для сотрудников был разработан документ «Руководство по дизайн-мышлению для библиотекарей», который помогает стать более креативными в работе с пользователями. Я считаю, что нам обязательно надо перевести этот документ на русский язык для российских библиотекарей. И третий момент, который меня совершенно поразил: в этой библиотеке в центральном холле висит огромный гонг, напрямую связанный с городским родильным домом. И когда на свет появляется новый малыш, гонг громко возвещает об этом, и люди радуются. Это дает ощущение общности даже в большом городе, и местом такого единения является библиотека.

26:26 Дарья: Да, меня тоже очень впечатлил этот рассказ, потому что это настолько сплачивает местное сообщество! И последний наш специальный русский вопрос. (Улыбается). Ваше кредо?

26:43 Светлана: (Смеется) Ваше кредо! Тоже сложно определить… Мне в своё время индейцы подарили камушек, талисман, на котором написано «DARE». Что можно перевести как «Дерзай, смей, рискуй»!!! Не надо бояться, надо двигаться вперед. И мы обязательно достигнем нашей цели.

27:40 Дарья: Светлана, большое спасибо за наш интересный содержательный разговор. Подскажите, как наши слушатели могут связаться Вами онлайн?

28:09 Светлана: контактная информация есть на сайтах организаций, где я работаю: Библиотеки иностранной литературы и Центральной городской библиотеки Санкт-Петербурга имени Владимира Маяковского. Также со мной можно связаться через Постоянный комитет секции CPDWL и через Правление Российской библиотечной ассоциации, в котором я состою. Пожалуйста, я буду очень рада.

28:48 Дарья: Ну и наверное ещё через социальные сети, например, Фейсбук, который является прекрасной площадкой для общения нашего профессионального сообщества.

28:56 Светлана: Да, в Фейсбуке много интересных профессиональных групп, в том числе интернациональных, например, «Российско-американский библиотечный диалог», Библиотечные ассоциации мира». Спасибо большое, Дарья Александровна, как всегда было очень приятно с Вами пообщаться.

29:39 Дарья: Огромное спасибо! Нашим специальным гостем в русской серии подкаста Секции ИФЛА по непрерывному образованию и обучению на рабочем месте была Светлана Анатольевна Горохова. Дорогие наши слушатели, всего доброго, берегите себя, будьте здоровы!

_______________________________________________________________________________________

00:01 Daria:

Hello, dear colleagues and friends,

The IFLA Continuous Professional Development and Workplace Learning (CPDWL) Section starts a new series of podcast interviews with outstanding library field personalities. This series is devoted to Russian library experts. The interviews will be conducted in Russian and spread in the Russian language library community, while their translations into English will familiarize the English-speaking audience with the latest developments in the Russian libraries and associations. Today we present our first guest, Svetlana A. Gorokhova.

01:02 Daria:

03:02 Daria:

Hello and welcome, Svetlana!

03:04 Svetlana:

Hello, Daria. Thanks a lot for inviting me to participate in this fantastic project. It’s great that CPDWL Section started this project. We are looking forward to listening to this podcast in other official IFLA languages. So this series is going to be in Russian. I will be happy to answer your questions.

03:43 Daria:

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Daria Beliakova. I am a SC member of the CPDWL Section and head of the LFL Center for Library Science and Professional Cooperation. Let’s begin with some traditional questions which all guests have to answer.

04:09 Daria:

So, the first question is: if you have to describe yourself using only one word, what word would it be?

04:16 Svetlana:

Well, that’s a difficult question. The first thing that springs to my mind is the word “communicator”. Because I see myself as a kind of a bridge connecting organizations, people, associations and projects. I always enjoyed this process. At times my colleagues even seem to think that it is a little bit too much of me….everywhere)) (Laughing.) But I believe in communication nothing is too much. And it is always great to have a person around who can bring things and people together)).

04:53 Daria:

Thank you! What compelled you to become a librarian? How did you get started?

05:00 Svetlana:

In a way my example is far from being prime because I came to work in the Library as a Philology graduate student, by chance, as I needed work. I was lucky to get a job in the elite unit of the Library for Foreign Literature – Reference & Bibliography Service. It was 1989 – the time of Perestroika, we all were drunk with the spirit of freedom, the wind of change was blowing around us. I was part of a top class team, which included bibliography experts as well as new professionals. So I found myself engulfed in the world of books and intellectually insatiable people and stayed with them forever… I worked my way up from a rank-and-file librarian in the reading room. All those years I steadily advanced and finally made it to the post of Director for international activities.

7:13 Daria:

Most of your professional career is related to international library activities. What does it mean to you? How have your views changed over the years?

7:31 Svetlana:

Library for Foreign Literature is an international venue in itself, a vanguard of intercultural communication. That’s why international library activities is a natural, congenial process to me, inseparable from my professional work. While at the beginning of my career it was more of a keen interest in what was going on behind the so called ‘iron curtain’ and joy to be able to see different lines of approach to librarianship, now I am deeply aware of the need to relate one’s activities, to match approaches and cultures. All this helps to correctly evaluate where we stand. Right now I’m getting the feeling that professional international activities require strenuous efforts to keep them up, take further, reshape.

9:30 Daria:

You mentioned you were involved in professional exchange programs. Why did you choose to join the CPDWL Section? What brought you there?

9:47 Svetlana:

That’s very interesting. I went to my first WLIC in 1994 and ever since I have kept in close touch with the IFLA community. I served two terms on the Standing Committee of the IFLA Library Services to Multicultural Populations Section. Work at IFLA is always associated with making new friends, so my personal connections led me to the CPDWL Section. Susan Schnuer, Executive Director at the Mortenson Centre for International Library Programs, Illinois University, brought me to the CPDW SC and I was pleased to continue my work at IFLA in that capacity. At that time I was put in charge of the Rudomino Academy, an LFL unit dealing with professional development programs. In my opinion, the CPDWL Section is the most important because continuing education lays the groundwork for the whole library activity, any aspect of it. This is the universal condition for success of any library. I am very happy to be on the CPDWL Advisory group and to continue my work as best I can. I do hope to remain in the CPDWL ranks for a long time!

12:10 Daria:

Svetlana, I assure you that the CPDWL members hope for it too. Please share your most special memorable moment you have about IFLA or the CPDWL Section.

12:23 Svetlana:

I experiences a lot of such moments over the almost 30-year long history of my work at IFLA. Throughout the year I keep in close touch with the colleagues, but the highlight has always been at our reunion at the annual IFLA World Library and Information Congress (WLIC). Each year WLIC is an unforgettable cultural experience, an introduction to the culture of the country, its library system. WLIC implies fruitful, concentrated communication not only with colleagues from abroad, but also with members of the national delegation, close neighbours from the CIS countries, for example. We have developed certain traditions: Russian Library Association booth at the IFLA Exhibition, the Russian Evening to celebrate Russia’s literary luminary of the year. Here’s one of the last vivid memories – Russian Evening in hot Athens (Greece) when representatives of almost every national delegation came to us and read poems by Alexander Sergeyevich Pushkin in their native languages. These are the heartening moments which bond us together. I hope that next year in Dublin we will be able to have the Russian Evening dedicated to the wonderful poet of the Silver Age Marina Tsvetayeva, her anniversary. These are my memories. And, of course, people, human connections come to my mind first.

14:23 Daria:

Thanks, Svetlana! You sound so inspired talking about your career that to my mind, you are a happy person! Tell us what you like best about your profession.

14:42 Svetlana:

Each librarian answers this question differently. As I mentioned earlier, it is very important for me to communicate with people – users, colleagues, and partners. On my professional journey I met many interesting, distinguished personalities, it happened first of all due to my work in the Library for Foreign Literature. I would also like to mention endless opportunities for intellectual development. Creativity of the profession that allows you to give birth to incredible projects and implement them for the benefit of all. As well as the opportunity to make the world a little more reasonable and a little bit better. I’m very grateful to the fate, my parents and colleagues. I think we’ve done a lot of great things together and this warms my heart. (Smiling.)

16:28 Daria:

What is your lifehack for continuing professional education? Could you share how you manage to keep pace with the times?

16:42 Svetlana:

(Laughing) I wish I could keep pace with the times! I made some rules for myself: every day learn something new. Develop a habit, on a daily basis, to allocate the time to fill in the gaps which you spot in your education, acquire the relevant competencies. As we are going “super digital” now, we need to gain software skills for being and holding events online, for webcasting. I try to keep record of all situations when I stumble and catch up later. But of course, it’s a goal I haven’t reached yet, but I’m going for it! (Smiling.) To our regret, it’s a sort of luxury: we all have very little time. But there is a belief that the less you rush, the more you do. (Laughing.) It is also very important to be open and to communicate with colleagues. Often we don’t know what’s going on just round the corner. So networking is a must!

19:00 Daria:

Thank you, we will try to learn from your experience. Sometimes, the only time you have for personal development is on the subway, commuting. (Laughing.) Svetlana, what are the things you’re working on right now? What interesting projects are underway?

19:31 Svetlana:

Right now my colleagues and I are working on a fantastic virtual event entitled “Global Libraries” to be held on 30 November 2021. We plan to focus on the 20 trends which define the development of the global library field, which t IFLA President Barbara Lison presented at her IFLA WLIC session in August 2021. It was Barbara Lison who first initiated discussion of these long-term trends. Now the 20 trends are going to be the focal point of the nation-wide discussion in Russia. We invited the Russian library community to express its professional opinion and to vote online for five trends, which they deem most relevant to Russian libraries. President Lison expects to receive and compare the choice of national library communities and to use the results in her presidential activities. In this way, the voice of the Russian library community will once again be well-heard and taken into account by IFLA.

In about three weeks time we are going to have another meeting of the US-Russia Dialog, which will be devoted to the UN SDGs and, in particular, libraries’ role in the implementation of the ‘green agenda’ promoting sustainable consumption, responsible personal and environmental behaviour. Our aim is to launch several joint projects involving libraries in the US and Russia and to make it happen we invited young specialists to share their ideas. We hope that they will be able to join out group to enrich and activate our work. These are the plans we have.

21:56 Daria:

Ambitious plans! My colleagues and I are happy to be on your team! We hope that our Russian colleagues will join the events we’ve just announced! Svetlana, please tell us whether there was any other profession, other than librarianship, that you would have wished to obtain.

22:20 Svetlana:

Barista and initiator of sociocultural projects! Once I’ve retired I would start a little coffee shop (I adore coffee), “Strana Sovetov or the Country of Advises”, make coffee and give my clients advice on sociocultural project development. (Smiling.)

23:20 Daria:

This idea of yours might get stolen before you retire, I am afraid. (Laughing.)

23:26 Svetlana:

The field for this kind of activities is so broad and I am sure everyone could find enough space for being part of this landscape. Everyone is welcome! (Laughing.) There’ll be room for everyone. The idea is to make things better for everyone, be useful, and enjoy it.

23:40 Daria:

Could you share with us your latest professional experience, which has enriched and developed you professionally?

24:19 Svetlana:

I really enjoyed the recent international case conference «New Cultural Spaces in Metropolis. Library» organized to celebrate the re-opening of the main building of the V. Mayakovsky Central City Library in Saint Petersburg. Incidentally, this project won the title of the best construction project of Saint Petersburg and the best project on preservation of cultural heritage this year. We discussed the opening of new library spaces in the metropolis. We had such great speakers as Barbara Lison, the director of the Bremen City Library, and Marie Östergaard, the director of the Aarhus City Library. I was impressed by the story of how these libraries work with the local community. As well as client-oriented services and professional development of the staff. For instance, “Design Thinking for Libraries” guide was developed in the Library and actively used by the staff. This guide helps to become more creative in working with users. I think we should translate this document into Russian for Russian librarians. And one more thing that struck me. In the central hall of this library there is a huge gong hanging high up and directly connected to the city maternity ward. When a new baby comes into the world, the gong sounds loudly bringing this news, and all who hear it rejoice. So a sense of community is possible even in a big city. And the library turns into a place which upholds it.

26:26 Daria:

Yes, me too. I was deeply impressed by this story. Because it has such a cohesive effect upon the local community! And now our last question, a special Russian one. (Smiling.) What is your creed?

26:43 Svetlana:

(Laughing.) The creed? Hard to define… Once Indians presented me with a little stone, a mascot with the inscription: “DARE”, which I interpreted as a call to be daring: If we fearlessly go forward, then we are sure to reach our goal.

27:40 Daria:

Svetlana, thank you very much for this interesting thought provoking interview. Please tell our listeners how to contact you online.

28:09 Svetlana:

My contact information is available on the websites of Library for Foreign Literature and V. Mayakovsky Central City Library in Saint-Petersburg. You can also reach me through the CPDWL Standing Committee and the RLA Board, to which I am a member. Feel free to contact me.

28:48 Daria:

I presume, through the social networks, as well. Particularly, FB, which is a perfect communication platform for our professional community.

28:56 Svetlana:

Yes, there are plenty of interesting professional groups on FB, including international ones, such as “Russian-American Library Dialog”, “Library Associations of the World”. Thanks a lot, Daria. It was, as always, a great pleasure to talk to you.

29:39 Daria:

Thank you so much! Today Svetlana Gorokhova was our special guest in the Russian-language series of the CPDWL podcast. Dear listeners, we wish you all the best! Take care!

IFLA Continuing Professional Development and Workplace Learning (CPDWL) Section Blog

Inspiring information professionals write about continuing professional development and workplace learning in order to build strong librarians and libraries for the future!

Category Archives: podcast

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 4: Peter Bae (in Korean/한국어)

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 3: Carmen Lei, CPDWL SC Member (in 廣東話/Cantonese-Chinese)

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 2: Lessa Kananiʻopua Pelayo-Lozada

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 4, Episode 1: Kate Dohe, Celia Emmelhainz, Erin Pappas, and Maura Seale

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 3, Episode 5: Spencer Acadia and Fran Holyoke

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 3, Episode 4: Albina S. Krymskaya (in Russian/Русский)

CPDWL Podcast Project Season 3, Episode 3: Svetlana A. Gorokhova and Daria Beliakova (in Russian/Русский)